Background
Mint Season 6 episode 28 welcomes BlockchainBrett, the prolific NFT collector and investor at PTC Crypto. The conversation is nearly 2 hours long, highlighting why he believes content NFTs are the next wave of the creator economy.
We go through his new article “The Crypto Creator Economy” and outline key points critical to understanding the value of collecting content.
I hope you guys enjoy our conversation.
Time Stamps
- 00:26 – Intro
- 04:33 – Brett’s Journey As a Collector
- 06:48 – Artist’s First Wave of Adoption and Excitement Around NFTs
- 10:54 – The New Article
- 21:55 – Where Crypto Meets the Creator Economy
- 30:00 – Converting Web2 Viewers into Web3 Collectors
- 32:53 – What Does Creative Freedom Mean?
- 39:19 – Understanding Media Legos and Composable Content
- 42:41 – What’s Worth Collecting in Your Opinion?
- 45:38 – Content NFT Life Cycle
- 01:15:13 – Are We Building a New Creator Economy Centered Around Collecting or Consuming?
- 01:31:35 – How to Continue Creating Throughout the Bear Market
- 01:39:24 – The Next Class of Creators
- 01:42:59 – Outro
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Blockchain Brett, welcome back to the podcast. How you doing, man? Thank you for being on again.
Blockchain Brett: Thank you, Adam. I’m excited to be back. It’s been a long road since I’ve been here.
It’s been a while and we were just checking. The last episode we published was on December 2, 2021. That was episode, season three, episode 16. Nearly one whole damn year. That’s wild.
Blockchain Brett: Yeah, it’s still early.
Intro
It’s still, we’re still early. We also minted that episode as well. And funny enough, that episode ended up like being a solid piece that ushered in, quite a bit of people into the music NFT spot of where we where we are today. And that was sort of indicated by just like me tweeting out like, alright, we’re minting this episode, months and months afterwards, and people commenting like, wow, this was the episode that got me into the space. I’m collecting this, right? So, there’s a lot to talk about. And that also alludes to like the whole concept of like content NFTs that we’re going to be diving into. But I guess before we even do that Blockchain, Brett, I want to get a quick primer from you. For those who aren’t familiar with you and haven’t listened to that episode. Give a quick intro on yourself, and then we can dive in.
Blockchain Brett: Yeah, so I go by Blockchain Brett on Twitter. And I am the co-founder and Managing Partner of Palm tree crew crypto, PTC crypto for short, which is an early-stage fund, venture fund, focused on the cryptocurrency economy, what we’ll be talking about today. Yeah, so an investor and then also a founder and a collector on the founders founding side, it was in late 2016, I started at consensus and was founder of a company there, as well as company called fleek in the web three developer tools. And I’ve been collecting since early 2018, around starting around crypto super rare, representing super rare t-shirt right now for those on audio. And, you know, and all different types of NFTs and more recently, one my biggest focus has been music NFTs.
Right. So, you’ve been on both sides of the spectrum, both as a founder, also working for a company and now having your own fund. And I guess like, you obviously prefer the investor side. But do you enjoy more collecting from artists and creators versus investing? Like, what do you put a priority over? Like, what do you find the most fulfillment from?
Blockchain Brett: Well, I mean, I put the priority on the fun, for sure. But, you know, I mean, I’ve always had an amazing time collecting. Like, it’s just been an obsessive, passionate, exciting, kind of, yeah, I don’t even know if you can call it a hobby. I think it’s more than a hobby. So yeah, I mean, it’s been, ever since like the crypto art days, I’ve spent hours staring at screens and thinking about what to buy, and how to be a part of the NFT craze. So, it’s amazing.
Brett’s Journey As a Collector
Can you walk me more through like your collective journey. So, you’re obviously repping the super rare shirt. I know you’re a pretty big an early on super rare. Take me through your journey as a collector. What does that look like?
Blockchain Brett: Yeah, so I started early on super rare, and I was like, there’s only a. I don’t know. There’s only a couple or a few collectors around then like, you know, a handful of collectors. And at that time, it was like crazy spent $50 on a piece of crypto art. So yeah, I think like I was early to be in like the $300, $400 range like spent, I think I might have been, like a first, like one of the first spending Eth on crypto art, like it was a cold DPS. And so yeah, it was just it was a lot of breaking mental barriers of like, people back then used to say, you know, digital, can digital art be valuable? Because if it’s not physical, right? People don’t ask that anymore, obviously but like back then that was the biggest question. And then I think, you know, yeah, and then it was the right click Save As, right? It’s like, oh, if anyone can see it, why is it valuable? So those were kind of the two biggest things to think about. And then I went from like crypto art to like, I want to show off my crypto art and build a gallery. So, I bought land and crypto voxels that was the first launch like, you know, virtual world, on chain virtual world. So, like built the gallery and crypto voxels art, was started collecting like collectibles, like PFP NFTs all the different kinds of categories of whatever was exciting, but like it’s kind of naturally went from one to the other, and eventually is actually crypto art that kind of led me to music NFTs because of the work I was doing with musicians, releasing crypto art and thinking how is like there should be a music specific lane. And honestly, for all forms of content, but definitely feels like music is an actual next step. That’s when I started collecting on Zora and catalog like April of last year of 2021.
Artist’s First Wave of Adoption and Excitement Around NFTs
Why do you think that visual artists and music artists sort of had that first wave of adoption and excitement around NFTs?
Blockchain Brett: We I think there was like a Gen. There’s like a Gen 1.5 music NFTs or something where like we’re a kind of it was audio, visual NFTs. And essentially, what was happening is like the big musicians caught their eyes on pretty much on the Blau sale. And looked at it and saw, oh, I can collaborate with a visual artist and release NFTs and kind of be a part of this movement. So, there was a lot of that. And I think that a lot of them were like kind of signed to labels and pretty big artists. So, the distribution wouldn’t really allow like a direct pure, like a pure music NFT, like distributing the song as an NFT directly without it basically being an art piece first. So that’s kind of when like the kind of pure music NFT to a Gen two, I would say stuff really started around just like people releasing songs and not even really needing that, maybe not even needing cover art, like cover art is pretty standard. But like maybe even just showing the wav file icon, you know.
The way I understand the transition is being first of all, like being in the clubhouse room with when the Blau sale was happening. And sort of seeing the nifty gateway era in the super rare era while I wasn’t as active collecting, as you were, I was probably more kind of skeptical as to what was happening. One because I didn’t even have the funds to sort of drop 150 bucks, 200, 500 bucks on a piece. It was also me learning from the sidelines. But I remember very early on, there was like the very clear merge between the visual art and the music that got tied to it, right? So, people weren’t just like minting and drying up static images that they would do on Photoshop and then tokenize, they would actually create these like gifs or loops, right? Through mp4 files and with that, there’d be a lot of background music. So, the way I sort of understand it is like, that transition from visual art to now we’re seeing music sort of like be like the front and center piece of attention for NFT’s kind of makes sense, because a lot of the visual artists use music to amplify and to create that end-to-end experience for the visual art. Do you see it the same way or what are your thoughts around that?
Blockchain Brett: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s like, well, I think once you had crypto art, break the open the barrier of those two major questions like can digital art be valuable? And like, why is it valuable to own if anyone can see it? All of a sudden, that model applies to all types of content, right? And like naturally, it just depends on like, what types of creators are starting to dabble and play around. And there was a bunch of collaborations between visual artists and musicians. So, I think a lot of musicians got inspired and wanted to be a part of it. And that was kind of that like, pure web three music NFT space coming out from really being pushed from the bottom up on independent musicians. And the same thing we’re seeing in kind of smaller little subcategories in other ways. I mean, a lot of people in crypto write articles, people like it’s, it’s a lot of thought leading type of people that are trying to predict the future a lot. So, articles have become a popular medium in crypto. And now you have things like tokenized articles on mirror and paragraph and you have even stuff on the video side. People that make music also make music videos, and he started using music videos, music videos can be valuable too and can be on chain, and you have things like class and you have, you know, it’s just endless, like all the different kinds of categories and kind of just how they lean into each other. And I think they kind of just naturally happen depending on how the culture forms.
The New Article
Makes sense. Makes sense. I want to transition this conversation and sort of talk about the reason why we’re here. You sort of teased this piece that we published in the mid-season six vault, that sort of covers your thesis on the crypto creator economy, and I gotta give it to you, it’s a very comprehensive piece and what you put in the vault is only a teaser. And what we’re gonna go over today, sort of like the end to end eight-page, sort of like review of what’s happening. And I read through it very diligently and I want to bring up sort of like an, I guess, like steer this conversation based off the structure of the article, because you actually laid it out very nice. And you sort of started talking about the major problems that are occurring in the crater economy today, in the traditional crater economy, and where crypto comes in. And then you talk about this thing called the NFT content lifecycle, right? And I want to sort of like take it from the top and work our way down. So, I don’t want to introduce it. What is this article that you put together, that you spent so much time working on and that you teased in the vault?
Blockchain Brett: Yeah. This article is been basically what I’ve been thinking about and working on for a couple years and trying to put it in a digestible way for people to kind of put a framework around like, what is the cryptocurrency economy? And like, how do you and what is the way to kind of think about it and try to help, you know, other investors, help founders, help, you know, collectors, try to visualize what the framework for this space can be? And, you know, how can it kind of grow? And what are the different areas to think about? You know, I’ve seen like, I’ve been thinking, I’ve been collecting for a long time, across different verticals of content. I’ve been building in this ecosystem for a while, and I’ve been talking to as many founders that are, in this area, the being like a creative economy focus, like the creative economy focus fun, and seeing it and kind of building this sort of mental model and this sort of framework of how we kind of think about, you know, all the different pillars and building a framework for it, and I think it’d be helpful because a lot of times, I ended up explaining it one on one to a lot of different people, and like, and picking out pieces of it to use to explain or to help guide. And I think like, it’s kind of about time that we like, you know, put it together, put it in one comprehensive overall article and put it out there, so that it’s not, you know, it’s just makes it a little more scalable.
Yeah. And I think I love how you started the article, basically identifying some of like, the weaknesses that are present in the traditional creator economy. From your perspective, like what are those weaknesses? What comes to mind?
Blockchain Brett: Yeah, I mean, so it’s kind of interesting. I mean, I think to give the context of like, how I like come at these points. You know, I’m really kind of like a crypto guy, like, I mean, I’ve been out of school, I just started working in crypto right away, and just been constantly thinking about NFT space and what it can do, what it can change, what features are possible. And so, I’ve kind of come from that direction. And then like, obviously, I’ve been, you know, a content lover for forever, like everyone. And I have been secondhand to a lot of things in the music industry in different entertainment histories. But this is really kind of like, you know, when you look back and see what do we have that exists today? And what is possible, like, kind of what are the shortfalls of what we have? So that’s kind of a little bit of other framework. I think, like the first thing that when you look at like the creator company today, is like how to creators monetize, is definitely one of the main pieces and you know the way it happens is like, is it’s not really value oriented to the creator first, right? So essentially, you mostly have like these subscriptions, or these advertisement-based business models, that charge the end user or advertisers certain some for, you know, basically all you can eat content or for you to basically see, you know, advertisers and get paid for clicks. And all of the money they make, ends up being basically, like accounted for as revenue and trying to look at it and figure it out. All right, what’s kind of like the least amount that we can pay out to creators and maintain our bottom line? And they call it a royalty, and it’s performance based It’s like, how are you doing on the platform? How much your content is driving that traction for them? And that’s what we kind of pay out. And we call it a royalty, and it’s very, it’s become super normal, right? Like, all these different, whatever record label deals or deals with different types of creators, are based on like, how is your royalty? A lot of is based on how’s your revenue stream gonna come fromyour royalties? So, yeah, I mean, obviously, in that situation, it’s like, the platform is getting a lot of the value, the platform is restricting the value of the content itself, right? So, like, they’re basically saying, they’re assigning a value to what everything is worth, by charging advertisers, by charging the user for what they think they should pay. And it keeps the, basically keeps the value of that content under a certain bar, which is why I think when you look at stuff like music, and you look at art, or more like music, and videos, and other types of content like that. They don’t grow nearly as fast as thing as, you know, industries with different types of business models that are direct valuing them directly, things like gaming, right. So, I think it’s been a huge limiter. And I’d say one of the other major things, is around control. Usually, when you’re releasing content as a creator, like one of the most important things that I’ve seen people coming to web three, has been like, being able to release however you want, when you want, like creative freedom, right? And I think a lot of the ways that creators are able to sustain and make money with different types of agencies, are based on like, and controlling what they’re able to release now. So, this is kind of like, you know, very creative restricting process and you know, that that’s kind of the only way to do it today. So that’s the control over your content and over your audience is a major thing. The audiences themselves are obviously tied to specific platforms as well.
I want to touch upon something really quick, because you bring up two really interesting topics. So, the inefficient business models for content, creators don’t control their content and their audiences. And when it comes to sort of identifying why is inefficient, I think creators need to have this sort of like this content dump. And they’re slaves to their content to sort of continuously push out new stuff, to make the algorithm happy. And to sort of like help them climb up the ladder of distribution and favorability, right? So, when I sort of like create content, right, on the element of not controlling it, I publish stuff through Buzz sprout, right? It’s a decentralized hosting provider that helps distribute all my stuff to Spotify, Apple music, whatever, if I don’t pay them, right, then my content will actually disappear, right? So rather, rather than posting it on chain, just tokenizing my episodes, that’s gonna live there forever, like Ethereum will never delete my stuff. Ethereum will never shadow ban me. And it’s really up for me to sort of take control of that and to find the distribution and the growth. So, I love how you identified because I faced those pain points myself.
Blockchain Brett: Yeah, your content stuck to a specific platform. 100%. Yeah, and really, it kind of goes into another major thing, which is they’re not interoperable, like these different platforms, right, like everything that you’re doing on one platform and all the kinds of UX that they’ve built around what you’re doing in there, whether you’re, you know, you’re releasing music on Spotify, and it’s being curated in there or if you’re really on Twitch, and people are subscribing or engaging with emotes, like these are all within their own guardrails. And that data is not openly available to be built on and expanded on and it’s, everyone’s kind of creating their own verticals and all these things can be amazing, shared, infrastructure for people that have just the best experience across all different types of content. So, it’s kind of this this sort of guardrail, you know, limitations to what content can do within platforms, is another big one. And this kind of last one is really an interesting thing too, it relates a lot to the business model, aspect where, you know, the way the business model is limiting. The way you monetize is all via, like, upstream value, right? Like so when you’re distributing your music or your videos like you’re getting paid your royalties per performance, right? Other forms of ways can be like, through sinks, or any different types of avenues where content goes upstream, right? And, you know, in these situations, like, as a creator, when you have like your content, the way that it can be the most valuable essentially is like, by being the most seen, like distribution, like you want it everywhere, you want everyone to see it, right? Like, what’s the most valuable piece of art today? Like the Mona Lisa, like everyone in world has seen it. And what happens in this model, where like, you have to, the only way to monetize is by like getting paid for the distribution upstream. It actually makes you like, selectively choose where to distribute, right? Like, you’re not going to put the same song on Spotify and SoundCloud, because you can’t be free to stream on SoundCloud while it’s paid to stream on Spotify. They don’t, companies don’t want that, right? But in the reality, putting it in both places, putting it in multiple places where it can reach more people is going to expand your audience and increase the potential for more people to interact with it directly in value it, right? So that kind of is this, the way that content is monetized today also limits the way it’s distributed and like the full value that that content can reach.
Where Crypto Meets the Creator Economy
Yeah, one example that comes to mind, especially for the third point, content in media platforms isn’t interoperable. There’s a specific time period when Tik Tok started becoming huge around 2018. And the top grossing top followed creators on an Instagram, didn’t really make the wave and the cut of all the new creators that formed on Tik Tok. And now you have this new generation of creators that built crazy audiences on Tik Tok. But then again, they’re dependent on that platform. And there isn’t much interoperability in the funnels for basically converting a Tik Tok follower to an Instagram follower, it’s still very shitty. So, you’re forced to sort of siphon your energy, right? And dilute your energy across all these platforms, and be a content machine. And I experienced this firsthand myself, trying to attempt to make YouTube shorts, and then Tik Toks and then Instagram reels, right. And they’re all essentially like at the core of the same type of content. But one requires this form of dimensions, and another one requires this link. And you’re sort of like scattered across the entire internet, trying to tap into all these different ways to grow an audience across these platforms. Versus and I guess this is what we’re going to talk about in crypto, it works a little bit different, right? And this is why I like the piece so much, because you identify these sorts of points, that that trigger in keep a lot of creators stuck, and kind of introduced this new light at the end of the tunnel, where crypto kind of helps elevate or attempts to elevate all these problems. And I’d love for you to sort of introduce this next section, as I also share my screen, to kind of talk about where crypto meets the creator economy at this point?
Blockchain Brett: Yeah, for sure. So, I think it makes sense to hop into kind of some these major like values that are so, I will here and then and then go into like the whole, you know, what is the framework for creative economy, how that team kind of tease that up? Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing here really is the, the world, the, you know, users today, everyone’s online, everyone loves the content, loves certain content that they’re most drawn to, love certain creators are making that content, right. And basically, user just follows or likes the content, things like that. But where things are going, is towards a world where those people are going to be collectors, your favorite content that you find and you love and you want the most value with, the best way to create a relationship to prove the meaning that you have that content and be connected to it and to own it, is by the NFTs, collecting that content. So that’s really where like, you know, the overall broad categories essentially, like content NFTs, we say crypto art, we say music NFTs, video NFTs, you even have some glimpse of podcasts of podcasts NFTs, ones that you know, I mean, our podcast was minted when I was with you on minted. There’s, you know, there’s still some earlier categories and it’s definitely it’s very early on, right? And like we’ve seen most traction with art, we’ve seen it some pretty significant start to traction on music and, and these other areas are growing as well. And that’s really the foundation of it, like the most valuable thing when it comes to the creator economy is, creators and their content, right? And that’s what power is all these platforms with powers the audiences to come to them.
So really, if now just comes to the beginning where like the creator puts their content on chain, is the start of it. And what that enables is this new business model of collectors that are valuing the content directly, right, so when we were saying earlier, like, you don’t have the ability to like, unlock the full potential of the content, and it’s restricted within the business models of current web two, which is like subscription or advertising the paying out this back and royalty, it’s direct to your audience saying, I love what you’re making, I love what you’re creating, I love your music. This means something to me, and I want to own it, right? It comes with, it comes with a lot, a lot comes with that, right? Like there’s the obviously the value is that emotional attachment for sure, to the piece of content, to the artists. There’s a relationship component that you’re developing the artist that’s much deeper than anything you can do today, that like there’s a two-way signal, they want people to appreciate the content, you’re the one that appreciates the content, right. And there’s even beyond that, there’s really a social signal to, right? Like more people are like you, will be like you and will also find emotional connection and want that relationship with the content, with the artists. And you’re one of those people that were already doing it right. You’re a curator people, like there’s social value and signal to saying to people realize, I mean, like, I find a lot of pride, like confidence in collecting X copy in 2018. Like, that’s crazy, right now people think it’s insane. Like, back then, you know, that’s the point, right? It’s like, back then it wasn’t crazy but when you believe in something, you’re a part of it. That is your opportunity to curate. And yeah, that’s pretty much like the main foundation here. And obviously, people can continue to like add additional functionality to existing content out there, but it does, it is worth really stressing that, like just the content being on chain itself and being able to have that, being able to be collected, is a magnitude of order improvement. And it’s enough to really change the business model to like 100x improvement. And once you’re, yeah.
No, I was gonna say just like on this new zero to one model of collecting to show patronage, right, and collecting to show the creator that you were there at this given time. And I can prove that with whatever’s in my wallet, is incredibly impactful. And it’s why I’ve personally reverted as a creator, as a podcaster to give out pins to my listeners, because they act as this thing that they can prove that they were there, since day zero for them, collecting whatever it is that they’re collecting, right. So even now, like I’m in the process of giving up my season six pins and a few people on Discord, they’re like, yeah, I’ve been collecting since season two, you know, and that shows me like, like shit, like you’ve been there for the longest time. And shout out to Charlie for pinpointing that out. And like being I’ve been here since season two, I remember when you were doing them as po-ops and now, you’re issuing them as NFTs. Yeah, you know.
Blockchain Brett: And you saw it too, when we did the, like when you minted the music and the podcasts that I was on with you. How much people, how much meaning came out, that you were saying earlier, it’s like people were coming to you saying this podcast means like, I learned about music NFTs here. This is why I bought my first one. He’s mentioned Daniel Allen, when I bought Daniel Allen like, I love his music now, like it was a gateway for me. There are all sorts of reason why people find meaning in that piece of content and also in you, right, that you’re creating these series of content that that continues to come and people will wait for the next one and continue to learn more. And so, you’re a creator here, right? There’s about like, so people value that and what happened, I mean, like, it didn’t like an eve in sales. I mean, I don’t think you would just expect, right?
I was not expecting that because I don’t even get paid from Spotify or Apple Music on the streams just like musicians do, right? So, it’s monumental to me.
Blockchain Brett: It’s Yeah, it’s crazy. And I think that we kind of underestimate like how much people find meaning and are willing to like, show that and do it via essentially like online ownership content ownership. And that’s kind of the really, the beginning there. I mean, I think, you know, you’re at the end of the day, you’re on the being a pioneer in that spot. And I’m very confident they’ll continue to be more podcast.
Converting Web2 Viewers into Web3 Collectors
I agree. I agree. And I want to just double down for a minute, the section talking about like NFTs being a new economic model for content. My question to you, Brett, it’s like the same thing that we talked about in the music NFT side of things like, how can we convert more listeners into collectors? Because every collector is a listener, but not vice versa. How can we convert every single or more viewers into collectors, and to actually care about owning something? And I think part of it starts with the early adopters that sort of start that energy and that emotion to kind of prove this, like first mover advantage of saying, we were here, we’re doing this, and this is why it’s important. And that brings on more attention and more energy. But from your perspective, like how do we siphon more of the viewers and the likers and the people who share across web two, to also now collect, even if it’s something for free? Just like collect something in web three?
Blockchain Brett: Yeah, I think we can really get into that around like the, content lifecycle. Because I think in reality, the core here is the content being great and people loving it, right? And I think, once you start, like, once content is on chain, and has that that business model baked in, that it becomes how do you distribute it natively from being on chain, right? And how do you present basic preset content upstream, through its lifecycle where the future is, when you find a podcast, when you find music, it’s on an application that you know you have the opt ability to opt in and value it and be a part of the journey with the creator, right? And that makes it just alone, just knowing that, even from personal experience, is a 10x Plus Improvement, like, when I’m on Spotify, listen to music, which I still go on Spotify, I listen to music NFTs on spin app, I listen to spin app way more than I listen to Spotify these days, right, like, and the thing is, for me is now when I listened to, when I’m listening on Spotify, the new song that I’m listening to, that’s coming out, that I’m checking out, right? Needs to be so much better than it used to need to be for me, in order for me to like kind of stick around, because I know there’s no opportunity for me to really be a part of it. You know, and like when I’m over here on spin app and listening to songs, like I know, every single song, if I like it, if I get into it, I can like start to opt in to value and be on a journey with this creator and like. So, it just makes the experience so much better, I love having that opportunity. So, I think the long story short, is you need the content to be first and foremost. And then it also to be natively on top of this, you know, crypto rails NFT infrastructure, that people were able to go and take it to the next level, and understand what’s going on behind the scenes and be part of it, right?
What Does Creative Freedom Mean?
Right. Part of having a crypto empowered and crypto enabled creator economy is, being in control of your content and your community. And I think it’s actually incredibly powerful and I try to emphasize this a lot on the podcast, like one follower equals one collector, like I try to minimize that that model for me, so that I can focus more on building a collector base, even if it’s free collectors, right? It’s still sort of like building something on chain, right? And I’m curious, Brett, from your perspective, as someone who’s advocating for kind of like creators having more control over the content, what does that really mean, in the grand scheme of things and what level of responsibility comes with that?
Blockchain Brett: Yeah, I mean, I think one of the biggest pieces of feedback I’ve seen is how much artists, creators in the space love the creative freedom of being able to basically create the distribute, however they want, whenever they want, and would never which way and even be innovative on top of that. So, I think, like, that’s usually the, I think that’s usually the first realization, it’s like, oh, wait, like I can just do however I feel like doing it, like I don’t need to, like using agencies or focus on any specific distribution models or, right. So that’s kind of like a major thing. And then, you know, beyond that, it’s like, you own your relationship, right? Like, when you meet something on chain, people are collecting your NFTs, like, you know, who those collectors are, it’s immutable, it’s on chain, like you can port that anywhere. You can, you know, go and build a new site next day and make it where all the access or, you know, whatever features, the ability to mint exclusive content, or whatever it is, is on this site, and it’s to those tokens and then, you know, that’s really like, you ported your community to a different site, like just like that, right. And I think that is, the most powerful thing is like when you’re doing things you’re experimenting and trying new products, or whatever it is. There’s this kind of like way less risk, like way less platform risk, because you can just, you still have power, the power that you need, the control you need with your community to bring them around. So, you don’t, there’s, yeah, as much less risk there.
Yeah, I would also argue, and I’d love to get your perspective that, like web three has done a great job at helping creators capture value. But it still really struggles with distribution messaging, and algorithms for sort of like debt grabbing attention. And one thing that I always like I repeat on the podcast is like, the model is creators using web two for distribution and attention and web three to capture value, right. And eventually, and I know down the line, in the article you talked about went through social, like the two will converge. And not only you’re going to be building an audience using web three primitives, but you’re also going to be able to capture value simultaneously, right? Versus it being two separate things. But right now, we’re seeing a lot of people still use Twitter to create that initial funnel of distribution, to get the word out, trying to build their newsletters, right? Now we’re seeing mirror and paragraph create more web three natives sort of like newsletters from that primitive of collecting to subscribe, right? But it’s still not there yet and we can’t simply detach completely, right? Any thoughts around that?
Blockchain Brett: Yeah, I mean, I think this is where this gets, basically, I think with the business model here kind of does is like, it makes it where, you know, where you kind of monetize and where, you know, where the value cruise, which two NFTs in the day, right? So, like, essentially, similar to how, you know, the business model on like, existing web two platform is from royalties, it’s like this new model is, it’s from volume, for the most part, right, from sales, right? Your ability to issue content, and it be valued directly, and people purchasing it. And, you know, so you have the ability to continue to release more when you, as you grow your community, which is like continuing to monetize, as well as the secondary sales that the creator royalties that happened from the secondary sales of the continent, right? So, with that at the foundation, you know, it becomes way more open, where you can distribute, right? Like, all of these concepts around the distribution rights, are in order to try to grab value upstream, because you don’t monetize at the bottom of the funnel, right? It’s like, you release a song or when you release content, it’s like, how is it performing? And I want to get paid, and like you don’t distribute somewhere else, because that place doesn’t pay you and this place does pay you, right? And that’s where in this situation, it’s like, the monetization model is at the bottom of the funnel, and it captures anything upstream, right? So, it’s how far why big on distribution can I go, right? So, it’s anything by means necessary, right? Which is why you see things like already, like crypto art, and music NFTs being like freely distributed on platforms, right, like things like gallery on crypto art, spin app, future tape around music, like no creators are complaining and saying, hey, what are you doing, like distributing my music? Like, you’re not paying me for that. It’s like, no, that’s not the business model anymore. It’s like, you’re selling your content, right? And the more it’s seen, the more distributor, the more valuable it is, the greater chance of selling content. Those distribution platforms now have buy buttons, right? Because like, you go, it’s once you find the content, it’s how do you get them from discovery down to ownership, right? And that’s kind of like the new future and it’s use anything, so yeah, for sure. I mean, all forms of social media today, I mean, it’s by any means necessary, like put it out there like Twitter, Instagram, anything, right? I mean, obviously, a lot of the audience today lives on Twitter, for sure. But I think as these applications move into specific types of content, and people know what things you’re looking for, you’re looking for music, looking for videos, what is it? That’s the area where they will comment, right, and it’ll be kind of content first, ideally.
Understanding Media Legos and Composable Content
Make sense. Yeah. The other three sections, so NFT accruing sort of the contents value communities, cultural equity and creators and the composable content or media Legos, I feel like we’ve touched on the first two quite a bit. When you sort of like collect something you bind to that creator’s community, right? And yeah, you’re a part of their growth from that point on, right. And the more things that the creator does the more value that they consistently and communicate outward, saying that this is going to go straight back to the collectors right and, and sort of like the value that’s generated from there. That sort of comes from the the NFTs accruing value as the content gains value. The one thing I want to touch upon, that we didn’t really talk so much about is this element of composable content, or media Legos. I love that because I think that’s very much subliminally distribution. Very, like very, very bluntly, saying. And I think a good example of that is seeing sort of like behaviors across Tik Tok, and how people duet a video, right, and how they sort of repurpose somebody’s existing piece of content, and kind of add their own creative twist to it. And I think a good example of that is seeing what Daniel Allen was doing with his glass house remixes. And now he’s bringing other sort of like music artists into web three, and using his music as a way to kind of like navigate their compass, right? How are you sort of understanding media Legos or composable content?
Blockchain Brett: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, so I’ll give a quick shout out. I think the first person had said, like, the quote unquote, me, Legos, Jesse Walton. So definitely some inspiration there. But yeah, on the composable content, I mean, you know, it’s really like, on that side, for sure, like co creation production, big part of it, I think, like, on another level, a lot of it’s really like, everything you see within these applications is being built infrastructure wise, around, you know, how is content discovered? How is it curated? How is it this engaged with, right? Like, all these different applications have their own different kind of ways, and they build their own layers. And these are all like, very right pieces of infrastructure, that can be composable, once things are content NFTs, like once the content is on chain, and it can move and distribute freely upstream to any platforms, you can also start to use shared infrastructure protocol tools around how we can interact the content, how do you curate it? How do you engage with it, right? So, there’s all these kinds of different layers of interacting with content, that have these opportunities for new protocols and shared infrastructure to come out, that different distribution interfaces that focus on different types of content, can decide which things integrate and use and create the best experience for the end user? You know, so? Yeah, and much more like an open ecosystem. So, I think that’s kind of really like the heart and the focus. And also found towards like the remix production, co creation side of things. It enables a lot of that as well, for sure.
What’s Worth Collecting in Your Opinion?
Yeah. And I think this is also a perfect transition to sort of highlighting, kind of like the content NFT lifecycle, and I want to introduce this next section of the podcast, just sort of sharing my screen. And for those that are listening, I kind of read it off because I think from my perspective, you were the first-person sort of like, tweet something like this out and to present content NFTs as like the top of funnel sort of primitive, and all these other pieces of media kind of fall underneath it, right? So, content NFTs as a tweet continues content NFTS, crypto art, music NFTs, video NFTs, writing NFTs, podcasts NFTs, TV NFTs, film, NFTs, all content is coming on chain and will be foundationally new business model for the creator economy. So that’s your bet, everything is going to be tokenized to some extent, right? And everything is going to be worth collecting. But my question to you, I want to challenge this for a second, like, what is actually worth collecting? And what do you actually tie attribute value to versus attribute something for free? And how do you kind of like what’s the mental model around this entire new primitive?
Blockchain Brett: What it does is, it gives the ability for all content to be valuable. Doesn’t mean everything piece of content is like going to be valued, right? Like it’s similar and that’s where it comes, like right now, there’s a small amount of content so far in this ecosystem. And that’s going to continue to grow, right? And over time, that’s where things like more thing’s infrastructure become more important around discovering creation, and engagement tools to kind of help people find and decipher and figured out things that they essentially find valuable and take ownership in. And yeah, so you know, it’s going to be valuable when people find it. So, like you find it’s usually coming, I mean, I think it should come from the quality of the content. First, it could be you know, the artist, the creator behind it, something that it means to you, some reason why you like it, and that’s something you want to have relationship with. So, you know, I think like, if you had a million songs come in tomorrow, right? Like, it’d be impossible to get all of them to be worth, like to get valued because of where the market is right now, right? But yeah, I think there’s this kind of like, as more content comes, more collectors come, and more and more things continue to get valued. And it’s similar to, you know, in some ways to, like, currently, we’re like, people have to find things they like, like not everything is seen and appreciated, right. But for those things that, those things have the ability to have that now and be appreciated directly. And it’s a much better foundation for the future that.
Content NFT Life Cycle
Yeah, makes sense. And as we sort of transition to really break down the content NFT lifecycle, I’m going to bring back the initial graph that I brought up earlier, I think it’s a good visualization to understand what is the content NFT lifecycle and all the different pieces that kind of fit as a downward stream, right? And I guess just to quickly outline it, and then we can dive into each sort of segment is, you have the element of actually producing the content. And then once it’s produced, you mint and tokenize the content. And after you mint it, you distribute it. And then you have curators that sort of like help brings even more eyes to it and have their sort of taste making abilities projected on it, right, as a signal. And then you have the level of engagement that comes around it, right? I would love for you to kind of like break down every single section because there’s also like, another component, there’s a community coordination to and how that fit into the whole entire funnel of web three social, right, as you imagine. So, let’s double down on what the content NFT lifecycle is, and just take it away.
Blockchain Brett: Yeah, let’s do it. So, I’ll help kind of paint the picture to really like, what like, I think about like this, like, content NFTs, kind of create this framework, where there’s all these different verticals, content, from art, to music, to videos, to podcast, to writing, right. And it’s kind of it, you know, goes that way, right, as well as the way the content goes upstream, right. So, take something like a piece of music and how it’s co created in the production style, right, like in the production layer, right. So, you know, having the stems the songs and it being findable and remixable, right, like, that’s a layer, right. And then minting that song on chain is a layer, right? Like, basically instantiating it on chain and making it able to be valued, right? That content NFTs then being distributed upstream, right? So, listener apps, or video players, or all these different, depending on the vertical of content, like what you need, like what we’re used to around, things like Spotify, bringing up content, or YouTube showing videos or Netflix showing TV and film. And then, you know, as it’s being distributed are part of like the distribution funnel as well. It’s like, how is this content curated? Right, so like, traditionally, you might have creation kind of in a more centralized way, where companies create their own playlists or you have your own, you know, highlights and features and great and it’s kind of like the sort of top down or maybe you give a certain artist or a certain creator, the ability to have like a playlist or, you know, a set of curated content. And there’s an opportunity now to like essentially bring together creators to like vote as communities, to find content together, vote as communities, and help bring up and rise the content they love the most.
So, you know, you might not necessarily be like an artist minting or you might not be someone collecting but you could be in the circle of like, communities that are finding certain types of content or even genres of content, within that type of content. And helping be like you know, when people say, oh, I was person that found that artists and brought them and then they sign a record label or it’s like, now this happens on chain, like communities can vote and actually like do it on chain and these are really like, you know, these kind of pointable, these data points that are accruing. And then beyond like, you know, once you’re kind of curated maybe that helps with distribution getting into more interfaces as well, then that content is like you know, even more upstream, it’s being engaged with right, so like a good example of something like on Twitch where like you’re reacting in the streams with emotes and getting your questions answered or on Tik Tok, were acting with hearts, live on Instagram like hearts, live during streams and right and this is like, how do you do that kind of on chain, is like You can think of like, basically value backed emotes right, like, not like a basically a level above ownership. And a level above like you created to help this artist get to that point essentially or elevate that artist. But now it’s like, you know, you’re someone that found it and you love it and you’re doing some foreign engagement, maybe you’re buying like the emote packs and you’re spending it towards and these are like NFT based emotes, that are directly giving money to the creator as you’re enjoying the content, right? It’s kind of like a lower level of engagement before you might go into like you’re looking for other, helping other artists or even going into like ownership of the content of that artist, right?
So, like we kind of look at it, I kind of look at it from that way as we build it out. But in reality, it’s going to start coming the other way for users, users will come in, they’ll be in addition to a distribution Focus app, they’ll engage with some content, maybe they’ll get to the point where the helping curate some of the content, right? Maybe they end up buying some of the content they love, right and like, so there’s, that’s kind of, you know, the different kind of layers and ways that you like, kind of unbundle the existing creative economy and say, all right, how does this sort of work in web three, what are these layers that we need to see here that we need to build for? And people were building for these, these layers, right? And across all different verticals content, you might even be able to say, it’s like, one of the questions is, are these layers kind of content specific or are they cross content? And I think it’s a question almost for, you know, each little sort of cross section of like, you know, whether it’s creation within music or creation in videos, you know, or is it you know, music first, and then you create there, or, you know, it’s like, you can kind of look at it from any different direction when you’re thinking in those kinds of different boxes. And that’s where the content, like that’s kind of really diving into the content lifecycle pretty specifically, right? And then you also kind of have it’s like, right, in this world of like, your collectors are valuing your content. And that’s how you’re basically building your community, like your community is now like, just your token holders, right? And so now, there’s needs to be new infrastructure for how do you coordinate your community, that’s now on chain holding, and owning tokens, right. And obviously, one of those really key things that happens, the second you own something is you wanna be able to communicate.
And so, messaging is a key part of that. Right, like, and so we look at things it’s like, on chain messaging, like, natively is very important, like decentralized messaging infrastructure, right? How do you get, how do you talk to someone directly from wallet to wallet, maybe you’re filtering your wallet based off token ownership, I don’t want people to just message me because I have my wallet. I want people to message me because maybe they have certain assets, right? Or they’re within the same communities that I’m in. That’s a key, that’s a big layer, right? And then also, as you move from there, it’s like, as a community, how does committee get more involved in the creator, in the content lifecycle, it’s, you know, around governance, it’s around, like voting on things, trying to build a treasury building, like you know, like a chest of treasury that can go and be active and basically work together to help proliferate the content and the artists, right, that’s where you’re going in, and you’re kind of crossing over the content lifecycle, and you’re helping with distribution and creation and engagement and, you know, working together along those things, also, there could be people that are, you know, like, helpful, like directly skilled in things that that creator needs, and they’re direct, and they’re already in their community, instead of going out and saying, hey, how do I find a marker? How do I find you know, some of the mash of the song or someone that edits, you know, videos? Like, you can now create this opportunity for like earning, right?
So, like thinking about concepts like, alright, like, sure people are selling NFT today, but over time, as you want to give more people the ability that are adding value to community, to have ownership in your, you know, your career and your journey as an artist. Now, maybe you say, oh, like if you do these certain sets of things, like you can earn this NFT, Like, Blockchain Brett over here is spending all this money on it. If you do these, like, you can just earn it, right, right? It’s your way. And yeah, and then like, that’s really where it gets interesting. And like all the different levels of earning and kind of how do you scale that, those earning opportunities, right. And yeah, and the size of the community is really where you get to like the social token. So, we went from messaging governance and treasury, to earning, now to social tokens, where it’s like social tokens is a scam is like a community scaling opportunity. Basically, the way I kind of think about it is like, you start, like, you want your content to be valid. So, you start releasing content. And then more and more people, the demand, the value your content grows. So, you start to essentially release more content, or maybe more editions of that content. And at a certain point, you imagine it gets to the level where it’s like, there is more people that love my content, than I’m willing to essentially dilute the value of my content, like, I don’t want to have as many editions as many pieces of content out because, like, it feels like it’s too much for this piece of art, right? And I want to keep it to this level, right? At that point, it’s like, okay, you can basically create, like a wide exposure, and also, when you’re buying NFTs, it’s specific pieces of content, usually, right?
So, like, how do you go and say, alright, I’ll give this kind of like, wide exposure, sort of asset, that is the lowest price denomination entrance, and can be earned more quickly, right? than the NFTs, right? And that’s kind of like, the social token layer, makes no sense. And we haven’t really seen much of this yet in scale, we’ve seen some experiments. And it makes sense, because creators are still kind of developing, it’s almost like the, you know, you get to, like audience market fit, essentially. And then you say, okay, like, now I’m ready to release this social token, it’s similar to how you have like, a uniswap with a product and your product market fit, and then saying, alright, like, here’s the uniswap token, we’re going to expand it and create incentive mechanisms and take X scale to the next level, right? So, it’s kind of like that progressive decentralization for creators, is kind of like where the social token comes in. So yeah, we’ve just dove into the whole content lifecycle, the whole community coordination aspect, and these things are constantly crossing over, right? Social tokens can be a form of engagement around content, earning could be earning like the minting NFT directly or like, or like your community, directly around governance can be involved in the creation aspect. So, like, there’s a lot of like, middling between these two constantly, right? And like, and like your community participating, and supporting the content lifecycle that your content, and they want to proliferate that content for the creator, right? And then basically, all this stuff is happening on chain, right? All these data we’re building, all the things we’re building all this, these powerful relationships, you did you curate that artist, you help them get the distribution that they deserved, right? Do you own their work since the beginning? Did you engage with content early on that, you know, like, that you love and it means something to us like all these, it’s like, there’s nothing even close to this, these levels of relationships and the depth of relationship via ownership. In the current web two social paradigm, we have likes and follows, right, and subs and like, it’s, there’s a huge disconnect, this is bridging that like, the ability to be involved, be part of the artists journey, have cultural equity, have, you know, real on chain like data to point to that you were there and what you did and how you’re part of it. Right?
And so that all the community coordination aspects around, what did you vote on? What did you earn? You know, and then in around the content lifecycle, around what do you own? What have you, you know, curated? What have you engaged with? All that just becomes this really valuable data and all these collectors also have relationships with each other, who’s done what, the same stuff? or what have you done differently? And become this, like all this database that say, alright, how do we show that and like, show these relationships and show all the stuff that’s going on that’s so valuable? And that’s the web through social area, that’s where it all kind of comes together? And where there’s so much innovation to be had around, like, what is the most like, what is the best way to show relationships on chain? Right, like who are your mutual? It’s crazy. Like, if you look at the market today so far, like there’s like who are your mutual collectors, and what do you collect together? Right, and I think a lot of these things is like ownership becomes the centerpiece here, is like, how do you find other artists, right? Instead of us doing these different AI models and stuff like, it could be like, who are their most your highest mutual collectors? Like me, and Cooper Trooper are good friends, but I bet you on chain, we’re even better friends, like we’ve collected a lot of similar artists. We love a lot of similar artists, who are the artists that he’s collected in a large amount that I haven’t collected? Right, I’d love to know that, right? Like, that’s how I want to discover, that’s why we want to do ownership based like social, right? Yeah.
And that’s where the opportunities really come here to say, like, people, a lot of people say the narrative has become a lot of like, what’s the utility? You need to have utility. It’s like, there’s so much utility here, is just not easy to see it yet. Because all the relationships that are going on, all the emotional connections that are being had, are not, we just need to display them, we need to show them better. We need to make people realize what’s happening and how and like, show what they’re feeling. Right. And so yeah, I’m really excited about web three social, and I think that’s where a lot of it comes together. And that’s kind of really like, you know, I know, we probably could have started by saying, you know, here’s these different categories and topics, and let’s dive into each one. But we kind of went into detail on each one, the whole way, through all of it. And yeah, I think like, you know, look, this framework, this kind of way of thinking like, it’s still early, like, you know, this is, there’s been a lot of thoughts, they kind of like develop this and help think about, and I think, you know, I’ve been saying it, and it’s been really helpful for founders, and I hope that like people can see this and say, oh, like, that makes sense. And like, this is what’s missing? And these are the pieces that need to be built. And, oh, as an artist, I should be, I should be pushing in these directions, like, yeah, well, who are the apps doing that? Like, I want my content to be going upstream like that, and using these things, and there’s so many cool apps that you have, like, if you look at the kind of just the music landscape you have, in all those categories, you have stuff like, in the cocreation, you have things like arpeggio, or like you have samples that anyone can find in common remix, right, in the minting later, you have stuff like sound, Zora, catalog, where people are going and minting music and having people come and value them and buy them, right. And the distribution layer, you have stuff like spin app, you have things like future tape, where the music has been distributed to take it to the listening experience, specifically, around the creation stuff, you have things like heads, right heads is making, is creating a community around a group that votes around content anonymized every so often, in the top, you know, the top voted on, artists essentially get accepted into these different sorts of curated platforms. Or you could look at it as the final 10 artists to get accepted as like a playlist of like, what the community chose, right? It’s centralized playlists. You know, you go on the side of it, when you go to community coordination, you see, like, around music, like how are these committees coming together talking to each other? You have things like Song camp, where it’s like a leading, like a music NFT community, right, you have things like Daniel Allen Telegram, and you have his, you know, we haven’t even really gotten into, like, how you’re gonna make your community earn? How you’re going to, you know, like, what’s the best way to do social token long term for the whole artists, right, and, you know, governance and treasury and these things, like it’s still early in these different layers. And not that many stuff has been built out, centralized messaging, we had, we see things like, you know, SMTP, and stuff like relay being built on top of it, where you have, you know, like wallet-to-wallet messaging that can be built directly into apps.
So, like, that’s the point is like apps are coming, builders coming, shippers are coming and they’re building out, like this kind of ecosystem things. And artists are also are paving the way in these areas really, like you’re saying, like, you have, basically historical artists like Oshi that are the first to be on catalog, the first to be on sound, the first like pushing in the direction and being these things. So, it’s like, for ours, it’s like, I hope it helps to say, all right, like what are the different areas that I should be expanding on and pushing like content towards? And because these because it’s so early, that they’re not even built yet, you need to kind of know what to look for, for builders, shippers, it’s like, you know, what, like, what are the things that need to be built? There’s a lot of stuff today, you might look and you know, when music NFT platforms are doing well, it’s easy to come, for new people coming to space to say, oh, I want to build the music NFT platform, right. And it’s like, there’s other things that need to be built, that in this world of composability can be layered on top, you can be partners and work with and be close partners with these platforms that exists today, which wasn’t, isn’t really a possibility before we have to, everyone’s just has to be competing, you can build the next layer of infrastructure for music, or you can go to the next vertical of content that doesn’t exist, right. And you can start building and tying and looping an infrastructure that exists to that side of it, right.
So, you know, it’s like, what do we build? What do artists go? How should collectors think about division of space and opportunity that we have here? And what how big this can really be and what it means to be like participating in this at this point? Is also a big part of it, right? So, it’s kind of like hopefully, it’s like, kind of a bit of inspiration and some clear thinking around like, what is this kind of look like, right, in a few years plus, right? And what are we kind of building towards? And yeah, and I think this is like a really exciting future where like, it’s just so much better like it’s so much better for the artists, the creators and for the audiences, right? Like for the artists and creators, it’s like all those benefits we talked about, having control, monetizing directly to your content, having creative freedom. Being able to take your community anywhere you need, you want to go. Yeah, like this is the world that is like 100 times better for artists than it is what exists today, right? And that’s why it makes a lot of sense for artists, market store early and a lot of these places, but it makes sense for artists to come and to be the next generation and just to be a part of it and be building with it, right? And at the same time, on the audience side, it’s like, this has been the best experience ever yet for audiences. Like, I mean, if you just take my example, personally, it’s a pretty extreme one. But like, I was collecting, for instance, Daniel Allen, Matthew Chain on catalog, in the early days, you know, eventually, like at this point, like, I can sit down and one of my closest friends, I bought his NFTs before I even met, right, like, this is like, this is a world, we live in where like the ability to grow and create relationships with people online first, are just being taken to the next level, right? Like 10 times, you can’t worry, how can you do that? What are you going to do? If you like a certain artist and you want them to see you, follow them, you’re gonna like their photo, you’re gonna comment, you’re gonna DM and hope they answer you. There’s no other way to really do it, right.
So, like, this is like, it’s just so much better. And then, in addition, when you look at this kind of like business model that flips the distribution aspect, right, it says, hey, like, you want the constantly more wide stream, and you want it to be more distributed. And so, people can find it and come down to the content. Think about that from the artists perspective, it’s like a relief, I don’t have to think about it, chase everything all the way up, like, I have my place where monetizes and like, I’m just trying to grow that top of the funnel as much as possible. So that basically, I can monetize down towards the content, or at the end towards the content, right? Like directly at the content level. And then for the collector, the consumer side, content is even more free to consume, like everything is now distributed freely, right? Like, I can go and listen to anything I want for free, right? And then I can and then because the concept is, is that you now when you love something, you have the opportunity to engage and value it, you have the opportunity to curate things and help artists and own content value directly. And what that does, at the same time is unlocks the value of what it can be, right? Like if you zoom out and say alright, what is the size of the art market? Traditional art market versus the size of the music industry? Right, traditional art market is $80 billion a year. Music Industry is around 40, right? It’s half the size, which is like insane to think about because like, music is massive, like great. We have Spotify built on it; we have tick tock built on top of it. We have music festivals weekly, all around the world, hundreds of 1000s of people. We have so many musicians uploading music constantly. It’s crazy, right?
So like, how does that make sense, that it’s great. And it’s kind of interesting, because our traditional art, like physical art is kind of the only type of content that already has this business model where you value art and you’re a collector of art directly, right? So, it’s kind of like, it’s really using that and taking that model. And what happens is the size of this industry can become unlocked, the value of each piece of content is more than 10 bucks a month per user, it’s people buying songs for thousands of dollars from one person. Now instead of one person spending $10 per month on all the content consumed, they might end up spending thousands of dollars just on one song that they like, right? Or one piece of art, right? So, this is like the unlock of the value potential basically brings the size of like, this is similar business model of gaining in game items. When you buy items in a game, right, fortnight skins or whatever. That’s how they’re making all this money is, they’re having people like value items directly in the game and buy them, like that’s how they make them. It’s like basically bringing that like valuing content, valuing online things directly to creators and giving it the exponential size, how gaming has grown, right? It’s like a huge unlock, right? This this business model. So, I think like, what we have here is just like a greenfield like, we’re just not green, I mean that there’s people that are building a space, and it’s more developed than most people think it is, right. But it’s early, and there’s a lot to build. It was a lot of artists to come, there’s, you know, more builders to come. There’s a lot of collectors to come, right. And these behaviors we have that seem kind of crazy. Collecting music is going to be very normal. It’s going to be very common, and it’s not about hey, how do we say, oh, yeah, music NFT is like, that’s just the first iteration but has a scale. It’s like you’re looking at something the reason why you’re excited about it, is because of what’s there and you’re saying how do we like, actually do something different to take the next level. It’s like, let’s focus on what’s working and expand on that, right? We have like, what this space is doing is amazing. And it’s just going to continue to grow and how do we make that better. Thank God spin app is coming and building out the musical NFTs. We need music NFTs to be listened to more, we need music NFT to be content. Thank you heads, we need engagement layers, there’s not really much engagement layers yet. There’s really not, there’s really not right. We need like all these things to like, kind of rebuild on this new foundation. It’s very new system and a lot of ways, right. So, it’s a really exciting future, we’re still like, really early in it. Like, I would say, like, where are we at right now, right? It’s like, we’ve, like kind of what journey have you been on, right? Like, I mentioned that I was collecting crypto in 2018. That’s kind of like, we’re like the first piece of content really started, is around art. And I was mentioning that like, the business model is already like that, for physical art. People in the beginning of crypto art, were asking questions like, can digital art be valuable, right? Right click Save As, like if anyone was valuable on it, right? We’ve gotten over that hump big time. The Crypto industry is like pretty big. It’s like a, you know, billion dollar or whatever industry at this point of market cap, right? You have people selling things for close to $100 million, right?
So, like, the thing is there is, it kind of makes sense that came first, because you already have the physical are parallel, even with the physical are parallel people were questioning it, right? Now, you have it, we’re, like people were wrong and question it like, digital art can be valuable, NFTs make it ownable, doesn’t matter who everyone can see, it actually makes it more valuable. That’s why you have people like x copy going CCO and making it completely available for anyone to remix or whatever. Because at the end of the day, he wants to sell NFTs, right. And then what’s interesting is like the music thing, how it’s come culturally from like art in the in the kind of like collaborations that were there. But then there’s kind of this like, independent artist, independent musician, movement that started like kind of in this counterculture sub niche area, and built out into what it is now, which is still a counterculture, right. Is like the, I think the first time that we’ve had this business model of valuing content directly, applied to a type of content that wasn’t like that before, right? Music is valued via what we talked about before, like the subscription, advertising models, royalties, right. Same thing with videos, same thing with film, same thing with whatever, articles medium, all these things are like, that’s the model, right? Netflix subscription, right? Like, these are the same models for all these types of content. It’s like, whoa, this like, this makes so much sense for all types of content, why can’t music be valuable? Why can’t people value it directly? It’s the same question that people were saying like, digital art can be value is not physical. It’s like, well art it’s digital music is digital to music can be valuable, right? And people love music. We’re already starting to see it, right? Why everyone can listen to, why is it valuable to own the same thing. More people listen to it, the more valuable it actually is. There’re just only certain people that own it, right? Like, and these same principles, the same foundations are beginning to go into other areas. We have things like glass XYZ, billing video NFT. Having a market that really started, it’s still small, it’s smaller than Music NFTTs but it’s growing, right? You have things like mirror and paragraph doing article NFTs, you have people like you like that, right, doing podcasts NFTs, very niche, there’s not a podcast NFT platform yet, right. But like this, all these things, film, TV has started, there’s things like that are doing, there’s some interesting, it gets a little interesting in different types of content that are like, heavier lift, basically, like you need the money before you start kind of thing. Right, then the model becomes, and also live content is a little different today, because it’s like music, art, podcasts, etc. You’re putting it out finished, and people are listening to it when it’s edited, etc. Right. And it’s virtually the cost is virtually low. It’s a low cost to create these things, right? And that’s where it’s like, when you start to get into things like live streaming, you know, how do you, how is it natively on chain, right? So, there’s a lot of cool, there’s cool ways to do it, right? Like in mechanisms that I think we just need to figure out, same thing with film, right? Where it’s like, it’s not released yet, it takes film is even more extreme, or it takes a lot of work up beforehand before you can like earn money and costs, right? So those are like, some question marks. I mean, I have some pretty good thoughts answers around those as well. But yeah, I think like, that’s where we’re at. It’s like we’re music. It’s gonna work for all types of content and better business model for all types of content. And there’s a whole new ecosystem of things been built upstream, there’s a whole ecosystem, things be built to coordinate communities that are now on chain. And there’s gonna be a whole new layer of how people show off the relationships, showing from on chain data. That’s the cryptocurrency economy.
Are We Building a New Creator Economy Centered Around Collecting or Consuming?
So, I love the conversation about on chain data, because I think a lot of creators can tap into more of that data they do own and capture more of the value that create, capturing value extends beyond just like making a couple Eth, it’s also understanding who your collectors are, and understanding that data and being better equipped to make better decisions and be more strategic with how you do things, right? For your community. And I love your example of like a creator kind of like understanding, like, what are the overlaps between his community and other communities, and what they could sort of do together to cross collaborate into create further distribution? Whether it be for an existing drop that’s in the process of minting, preparing for a future drop, or whatever it may be, even creating content together, you know, like, one thing that I noticed is that a lot of my pin collectors, they’re also native to Zora. And for the longest time, I never really created content with Zora, and then I’ve been creating more content alongside to, like, Zora’s, executives, and those episodes outperformed other episodes. Right, and just understanding sort of, like what my collectors like, and being able to sort of take action on that has been super rewarding, you know, with this entire monologue that you gave, which I love it, it’s very, it’s very powerful. I can’t help but think, are we building a new creator economy centered around collecting or consuming?
Blockchain Brett: Both, I mean consuming and then collecting, freely consuming valuable to own, right? Like, that’s, I think, what we need to see and what’s starting to happen, like, I think, in addition to like, how, you know, I was saying, like, it’s opening up the new types of content, music is essentially a gateway, right? Music is also made clear about what these other layers are, and what we need to bring on chain, right. So now, when you look at music, you say, oh, like, how is it created? Like, how is it produced? How is it created? How is it distributed? How is it you know, curated, engaged with all those layers? Right, and now, like, we know, okay, it needs to be distributed, like these things are naturally happening, like the content is the centerfold, the creator in the content is centerfold. And then now that they’re making content that can be valued, it’s becoming how do you distribute it? The other side of it is for consumers as you’re making it easier to consume, and a better experience to consume. But also coming down the funnel to collect, I mean, I think it’s like, there’s a world where, like, people can consume everything for free and never collect anything. In this, like, there could basically be those people that they could do that. And they have a pretty like, low relationship life online. Like, you know, you want to like, it’s basically it’ll become the only way and the best way, and the only way to like, show meaning and have relationships and like that, like online, and yeah, everyone’s gonna want to do it, everyone’s going to need to do it, really. So, like, it’s kinda like, you can go listen to an artist that you’re interested in listening to, for the first time, for free, and you can always do for free, but like, you’ll always just be someone that’s just listening to it, no one knows about, or that isn’t a part of it until you like do some sort of form of engagement, or maybe you are part of the creation process, or you actually have ownership in the content. And that’s when it becomes real. But yeah, so for the consumer, it’s like, it’s a better experience, because like, you don’t have to pay, yeah, paying $10 a month. But also, you get the opportunity to honestly to spend even more and have even more meaning.
You know, I think Brett like if we looked at how platforms today work for creators, like Tik Tok like liking something on Tik Tok, and that going to your like folder, right, is very analogous to collecting something in that hitting your wallet. But the thing, the beauty behind that is like it’s not gated. So, if a creator continues to build beyond Tik Tok across Instagram, or sub stack, medium, whatever it may be, right, like you can see that entire activity and who your community is, across all these platforms, right? A lot of it, yeah, I think a lot of creators have yet to have sort of like that aha moment and realizing that, but you want to say something to that?
Blockchain Brett: Yeah, brings up a big point too. It’s like and this is definitely worth mentioning is like this also fundamentally changed the concept of exclusive content, right? Like, a lot of the reason why exclusive content has been created is because creators aren’t monetizing like how they want to. So, they have to put up gated walls and charge people and get them to see certain things. I don’t think creators really want to do exclusive content, like, it’s like extra work, right? Like, it’s like, oh, like a lot of people are already, if you’re already posting on Instagram or something, and like, you’re like, alright, how do I make money, it’s like, okay, you gotta like, come up with some behind the scenes content, it’s like, you got to add another layer, you got to work from that angle in order to have this and it’s like a lot of work. And it’s like, you’re already doing things that are distracting a bunch of eyes, people love what you’re doing, now to do another level of things just to get people to pay. And in reality, like that content that you’re putting behind the paywall could be amazing content to put out, that would make it even more popular more people appreciate your grow your audience, right. So, it’s like, this whole thing of exclusive content is kinda like, it’s a solution. But it like almost works against the creator in a lot of ways. And like, and like in this world, where like, you have, as the settlement layer, this value capture, like, at the content, the distribution becomes more free, becomes more open, like we were saying, right, and like, so now in this world, it’s like, what’s the point of exclusive content? Like why? Do we even need exclusive content anymore? Like, now it’s like, right, I mean, I think it can be preferences of the artists, preference of the creator, preferences the audience, maybe they’re like, they just love the idea of there being something special. And like, that’s only some people get to and like, you know, maybe there’s it’s tiered or something and like, they there’s something that’s like, that’s part of the relationship, that connection there. And if you want that, great, but you don’t, you shouldn’t be forced into that, right. And like, you should be able to do your thing, how you want to do it, and like, people come down your funnel and value your work, and you get what you deserve for that directly, with no cap on your own terms. Right. And yeah, so I think a lot of the stuff around, like, what we look at exclusive content today. And like if you’re like, oh, does it make sense, even in a lot of examples that we see today in the NFT space, where it’s like, oh, like, I’m gonna add value, like by adding some gated content, or, like, you know, you have to buy NFT in order to see it, right. Things like that are almost counterintuitive to like the business model of like, what we’re doing here, and NFTs and I think over time, things are just going to move towards like, caring much less about distribution rights and copyrights and caring, much less about, you know, like, added little layers of utility, like to gate things, things like that, it’s just gonna be like, just do your best work, put it out there and get what you deserve, you know, and get and grow your community and, and do your thing.
And, like, it’s a beautiful thing, right? Because when you think about it, a lot like what this can eat, like, this type of content we haven’t even talked about, right is like, some of the most popular type of content is like, lifestyle content, right? On social media, posting photos of your life, right. And like, that is probably one of the later markets, that is probably one of the later markets that we’ll see like, people starting to buy, but it’ll get there. Like, it’ll get there. Right. And in that world, where like the way people make money is brand partnerships, right? Like your content gets like almost worse and less engaged with because of your brand partnerships, right, like influencers don’t like wanting to really post like do inorganic promotions and stuff like that and like those end up getting the worst engagement like by like half them out, usually right. And it’s not like what they love, what they do like, so it’s kind of like in this world of like your content is being valued directly. Like you get to just make the stuff that you want to make and that gets valued, you get paid, you don’t have like now all of a sudden brands and advertising and things like that, the whole dynamic changes where like you get to just make your best favorite things that, do the best that, grow your community the best and get the value back for that and it’s gonna slot those brands and advertisers cetera, in a different lane to be able to have to figure out.
I think at this point, I would put the ad slot, the sponsor ad.
Blockchain Brett: Well, I mean, look, I mean, think about, I was having this conversation with you before, I was like I was like Adam wanting to go for on-chain with your podcast, right? Like, I think like in reality like that one podcast we did generate like three grand, right? And you do what? Three Podcasts?
Yeah, yeah, it generated like close to one grand. Yeah, if it was like bull market vibes, then the Eth would be worth three.
Blockchain Brett: It was one Eth. And then Eth was at what? 20, 503 grand at that time.
It was like, no, it was like 13, 14. No, like 1000 even, something like that. It wasn’t even a full, it wasn’t a full Eth, it was like point 75 or something.
Blockchain Brett: No, it was like point 99.
I could be mistaken. I gotta double check.
Blockchain Brett: I remember, anything like point 99. It was like an Eth was still above 2k for sure. Like even 1000 but like it was pretty quick.
Yeah, it was pretty quick. Whatever it was worth, yeah, despite whatever it’s worth, the point is.
Blockchain Brett: Yeah, it was real, right? Like, let’s say it was 2500, right? So, like that times 25 podcast is probably more than brandings, I don’t know, exposure podcast, financials on the podcast, but like the point is like, all of a sudden, like the leverage of the brands, the reason like we have to create a content, like it changes when you can just like have people love what you’re doing and buy directly and appreciate it. And then it’s like, and then like, yeah, it just like, puts the ball back in your court. Sure, you can still do advertising and stuff, you can still do all those things. And it’s the same way that like, when I’m when, you create music, it’s easy. So put your music on Spotify, like the point, it’s actually more open, it’s super copacetic. Like I can use all these things that are already out there. The thing is, is just like your, people will realize over time, it’s like the web three native tools that are that are building the lifecycle around NFTs, are just the better options and monetize better and grow your audience and show your content better. Like it’s kind of a crazy stat. Like I bet if you went and did some analytics, you know, maybe you could do it on Bello is like, what is the correspondence between the success on like web two distribution platforms of that content in comparison to the web three, right? You posting your things, like, yeah, I mean, the best example, obviously, is when you look at music NFTs and you see like, how many streams did Daniel Allen get, right? Not many. Like, it’s crazy, right? But the music is amazing and people love it. And it’s the most popular highest selling music in web three, right? Like, I think like, yeah, if you were to compare the numbers, it’s something drastic, like, almost like a million bucks NFTs versus like 10 grand or something like that. It’s something insane, right? So, like, it’s just like for him, like when that business model sorts of work and creators come up in that, what are you going to focus on? You’re going to focus on growing distribution Spotify, you’re gonna focus on growing your distribution on spin app, right? Because that’s elevating your NFT, there’s a buy button, on spin app there’s no buy button on Spotify that integrates directly, right.
So, like, so it’s like, the correspondence is, like, already kind of low. And it’s, like, only lower as it goes, like upstream, basically. So yeah, I think like, it’d be interesting to see the actual date. I mean, like, you know, I see it every day in like, different examples, but like, you know, Twitter like, your Instagram followers or Twitter followers because your Twitter is all crypto versus your you know, your web three, which is your, you know, your content distribution on Spotify, and on YouTube video NFTs and comparison or your digital art on Instagram versus your digital crypto art sales like, yeah, like, you’re like these, like people’s is definitely focusing less on Instagram now, right? I gotta imagine. So, I think like that this is, it’s kind of, it’s creating, like new rails, new pipeline, new things to focus on. And like a lot, I think a lot of that the big thing here too, is like, people try to bridge our most popular examples and how they fit in here. Like you might say, like, well, what about a famous musician or a famous, like, you know, how does something like that come into it?
Whatever if.
Blockchain Brett: Yeah, yeah, it’s not really one to one, right. Like, in a lot of ways this is a foundation for the next generation of creators, right? It’s really for the new people, the underdogs people just starting, right? And that’s where the counterculture comes. I mean, if you look at like music NFTs and crypto art, right, I wasn’t an aesthetic, traditional art collector or anything. Like I didn’t really know traditional art before I started collecting crypto art. So, like, it’s hard for me to compare but I’ve been listening to music forever. I know, you know, a lot of musicians, since I was a kid, I love music, right? And you know, I was on Spotify all the time, right? I think like, when you look at the difference of the culture of the sounds like the art itself and the content itself, it’s different. It’s a counterculture within, it’s a counterculture already because it’s like the underdog in the new system. It’s the new business model, the next generation of artists to independence, right? But the sounds, the content that’s coming out is also new, different, cooler. The counterculture, right? Like it’s like listen to like Daniel Allen with Rio gorgeous, right listen to like, Rio just drop the frameworks and with Daniel did with glass house, like listen to Latasha out there, like, listen to like bloody white like, the sounds, it’s like there’s nothing, you can’t go and say, oh, this is that person over here like, it’s completely new sounds, it’s completely new genres, like the content because it’s like it’s such a new generation and the creative freedom, it’s because of like the tool the way it works, you don’t have to enter the existing system and be influenced by whatever agency, the full creative control, it’s the full control over your content, it’s the ownership, it’s the upstream, like that kind of not worrying about the upstream distribution and letting it come to you and you have it, it is changing the culture of the content we create and making people be more freely. Some of my favorite tweets are things that are like, I would never have created put that to me that song out. And it’s my favorite song, I love it and like I don’t think I ever would have got to that point that make that song or do that if I didn’t, if I wasn’t focusing on music NFTs, right? It’s just like, it’s like it’s enabling an even better culture and environment to create it, which is like making the sounds and the content even better.
How to Continue Creating Throughout the Bear Market
Step out from the creators, like the consumers, us, like I find myself often digging through my friend’s wallets, trying to find music that they collected and listen to that, like I’ve discovered bloody white through, spin it away wallet, right? So, I just kind of like going through what he was collecting, because I like his taste and listened some of that stuff and be like, wow, this is a really great song. And then guess what I did right afterwards, I went and collected it, you know. And it’s sort of like, it’s changed the entire behavior of consumption. It’s changed the entire behavior of creation and I think you nailed it. And I wrote this down, new sounds, new genres, new platforms, like that’s web three. And web three is another great quote, like web three is built for the next generation of creators. Like I love that. I think it’s a great way to sort of sum up this entire conversation. And to sort of add the cherry on top of this brand-new article that you put together. Brett, before I let you go, I want to be very cognizant of like the time that we’re in, in crypto today. It’s like beyond the bear market, people are getting slashed left and right. Very unfortunately, people are losing a lot of money, trusting all these different applications, funds, platforms exchanges, how can creators keep their heads up and continue creating, especially when they’re seeing all these external events kind of like triggering their new environment?
Blockchain Brett: Yeah, I mean, it’s more correlated now, than right now than it will ever be again going forward, it just gets less and less correlated, like the prices of, you know, whatever, FTT and soul and, you know, the collateral damage to other tokens and all this, like, you know, even the, you know, the effect that has on people’s liquidity to buy NFTs, like it’s more tied together now than ever. It all came from one place. In 2017, there’s only ICOs, right, like, we’re expanding into more and more categories, it becomes more and more separate over time. But I mean, I love to see is like, I mean, go like, it’s crazy, like if you’re on sound, right now, if you’re on glass right now. It looks like all-time highs. Like it is, it’s unaffected. Like, I mean, Daniel Allen’s floor just got sweat like 13 sounds like a bloodbath, right? Like or the other day, right? Like you have like, real Craig and does last minute, one hour notice drop, sells out in less than a minute, right? Like things that are doing well, content that’s doing well, communities that are growing around these creators in his content. Like, they don’t care about anything else, like people just want. I mean, you could probably price USTC and just get people to hold UCC and they’ll just, like it doesn’t need to be Eth, right? Like, it could just be like this is like, its own, like content is his own vertical the assets. Obviously, things are cross correlated and affected like, no doubt like but it’s crazy that when you come in, you see the culture that’s going around what’s cultivating and like, where things are at, like, there’s more jobs than ever on sound, more jobs than ever on music NFTs right now, there’s more jobs than ever in video NFTs, articles, all types of content, they’re selling better than ever, the floor prices are higher than ever. It’s like if you only looked at that and didn’t look anywhere else, you wouldn’t even know we’re in a bear market. Right.
It’s very, very simply put, like, just share a quick graph like this is taken from the sound collectors group chat, and telegram. And David just posted this right, like October 24, 34 drops October, the week of October, the week of October 24, 34 drops the week of October 31, 42 drops the week of November 7, 46 drops.
Blockchain Brett: We can remember 7th, worst weeks of crypto, like one of the worst weeks of crypto ever, all time high, music NFTs was minted on sound and sold.
And sold. Yeah. Like wild.
Blockchain Brett: It’s wild. Yeah. Right. And it’s like.
Building, just keep creating, just keep swimming.
Blockchain Brett: It’s growing, it’s growing. It’s growing, trust what we, trust what we’re building, expand on it, you know, like, what’s going on, what’s being built now isn’t wrong. It’s great. It’s right. It’s like, it’s not, don’t come and say, huh, what can I say is wrong about what exists in NFTs and then like, go and fix it and raise the money and come and look at what’s right. Love it, appreciate it, and look what it needs. Build for the next layer, build for the next piece of content, build for the next layer on top of NFT, everything’s gonna work, everything can work together, like more interoperate be composable more than ever, right? So yeah, I mean, it’s a really, really bright future. Like I think when you fast forward, all the way out, like, who knows how long this takes, I think quicker than most people would predict. Because I’ll tell you why I think that, crypto art went from $0 to like, a billion dollars, like three years in market cap, right? No one expect that. And that period of time when it was like at zero bucks, and it was there was no volume and it was like just super rare, right? Like, there was no concept of NFTs really, even people weren’t even buying it now. Like, it’s like a snowball effect, I think it’s it starts to happen quicker and quicker and quicker, as you expand from one piece of content to the next. Right. So, like now we’re at music, right? Or we’re at multiple times, but like you look at where we’re at, with music, we went from like, you know, a million to like 20 like pretty quickly, less than a year, something like that, right? So, like, and that, that 0to 20 or that 1 to 20 in crypto art took two years, two and a half years, right?
So, like it just like it snowballs, it gets better, it happens quicker, people get more comfortable. The perception of the biggest questions, some of the biggest questions I’ve already been answered. But can digital things be valuable? Can things that are seen by everyone, the only owned by a few be valuable to those few, right? Like these questions, these psycho psychological barriers have been broken. And like it’s just a snowball effect to other types of content and it’s gonna. So yeah, basically the fast forward all the way out, like you look at like a disruption to all verticals of content and applications on those contents that we see so far. All the way from, like, whatever the sum of art, right? To the Spotify for music, to the YouTube videos, to the Netflix for TV and film to like, everything is all that is up for grabs, like in this new like foundationally NFT based business model, new layers of apps, all the way up to the web three social, Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, like, kind of the NFT based. So, I think look like how long it’s gonna take, it’s gonna take some time, obviously, but like, I think it’ll happen quicker than we feel like it’s gonna happen. It’s gonna go quick, like, I don’t know, by the time music and NFTs is of the size of where crypto art is now. You know, things come in cycles a little bit as well, crypto, I mean, the correlation with speculation and stuff, but I don’t think we’re more than a couple a few years out from like, some crazy math, like some really big size music NFT market and a lot of proof of other forms of content markets also having serious sizes. I mean, like you can also say like I skipped over articles, medium, right? Near to medium, right? Like all these companies have parallels to like things we’re seeing now.
The Next Class of Creators
So, writers, digital and visual artists, musicians, what are the next class of creators, like video creators, you’d argue?
Blockchain Brett: I think videos as started, like, videos started. I think articles started writers like, in a smaller way, but I think that’ll just, I think, culturally, a lot of people in this ecosystem are trying to think ahead and share those thoughts. So, like, that’s natural, there’s a lot of video creators as well. I think podcasts, I’ve already, like are gonna come like, there’s been a few examples like, it’s a matter of time until like, that continues to compound and grow a little bit and more people are starting to do it. I think film and TV has started at a pretty decent amount, like there was some early crowd funds on mirror like some TV shows and some documentaries. That’s kind of a glimpse, I think, you know, there’s some other cool things too, that are kind of like story-based infrastructure, like community infrastructure for writers, like writer room, you know, down production for writer rooms, like thinking about how to, like, take the IP and a movie and like big NFTs around it. I don’t necessarily think that that’s like, in there, like, you know, their end state. I think that’s very early still, but like, yeah, TV and film, this is gonna, is for sure coming. I think, at some point, we’ll get to like lifestyle content, like social media lifestyle content even. Yeah, I mean, like, there’s big fans for you know, just Instagram influencer, quote, unquote, right? Like, there’s some real audiences, there’s some real fans and audiences out there that appreciate it and love what they do and their suggestions and like, whatever. So, I think it’ll get, like that might be until like, maybe one of the later categories, just like, I don’t know, I guess Instagram did just add, like, minting and stuff. So maybe we’ll get some people minting there. But yeah, I just think in reality, you need, like a bit of a healthy market on both sides, need some demand, you need people like ready, excited to buy, be a part of it. And by the way, how do you like to go from one market to the next, I think it’s smart the way some of these companies are doing it, like pricing it lower and making it easier for insurance to appreciate that it can be valuable, right? Like, you know, I mean, at this point, when it comes to like video NFTs and article NFTs, like I don’t know what the average prices of those, you know, I probably am not going to justify actually getting it. But it’s like something like $10 to $50 in that range versus music NFTs probably 200 plus, right? Like, like 100 plus, right? Like, so, it’s kinda like these new industries, like look, the demand isn’t as big yet. You need more content, content is king, you need to get more people creating content, and you need people to come appreciate the content, and start building it. Obviously, if you go faster and content, then people appreciating it, then there’s a supply and demand aspect here. You know, there’s a market. So yeah, somebody be careful about but at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter. Like there’s going to be some mismatches and some there’ll be more creators, or not enough creators and more collectors or not enough collectors. But it’s just the amount of content, the amount of creators and collectors over time just gonna grow, right? And it’ll just, yeah.
Outro
But I think this is the longest episode I’ve had. So, thumbs to you, my guy. This has been fantastic. Before I let you go, where can we find you? Where can we find and learn more about PTC and all the cool things you’re doing?
Blockchain Brett: I’m on Twitter, Blockchain Brett. You know, palm tree crew, crypto, PTC crypto for short. You can find us on Twitter too, palm tree crypto is the handle. Yeah, follow us there. Yeah, that’s really it, I’m certainly up there. Like, also go to our site, PTC crypto dot XYZ, has more information about the fun, companies we’ve invested in, a little bit about our thesis, this article that I released and this podcast will be on that page. And yeah, and you can get in contact with me there. I think I have my email and, you know, some other info in there.
You always know it’s a legit episode when sort of like the sun sets, right? In the middle of the episode, and it goes from light to dark and the only thing that’s keeping you up, is the lights in the office. So, I appreciate you being on the pod for so long. I’m really glad we did this round two. I can’t wait for round three. But until next time. Yeah, man, we’ll see you soon.
Blockchain Brett: Thank you so much for having me on, Adam. I love mint podcasts. My favorite.