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Background
Mint Season 4 episode 6 welcomes serial entrepreneur and social media mogul Gary Vaynerchuk, who’s the founder of VaynerMedia, VaynerX, VeeFriends FlyFish and so much more. It was a pleasure hearing his POV on the evolving landscape of web3 and all that it brings.
In this episode, we discuss:
- 00:39 – Current state of NFTs in 2022
- 06:14 – Will record labels evolve into hedge funds?
- 11:34 – Why buy music NFTs?
- 17:10 – Creator coins vs NFTs?
- 22:31 – Forming a DAO to buy the Jets
- 24:41 – Similarities between building an MVP and an MVC
- 30:06 – Trends in 2022 and beyond
- 31:32 – Game: Bullish or Bearish?
…and so much more.
I hope you enjoy our conversation.
Support Season 4’s NFT sponsors!
1. Coinvise – https://coinvise.co
2. Polygon Studios – https://polygonstudios.com
Interested in becoming an NFT sponsor? Get in touch here!
Gary. Welcome to Mint, my friend. How you doing? How you feeling?
Great, Adam. Thank you for having me on.
Current State of NFTs in 2022
Of course. Thank you for being on my let’s dive right in. Okay. I want to talk to you about the current state of NFTs right now. Okay. You’ve obviously been a very big proponent, very vocal on this stuff. What is the current state of NFTs?
I would say the current state is incredible innovation on how humans interact, communities are built kind of the same reason sports teams work, bands work, financial interest, but I also think a ton of bad behavior where people are really incredibly navigating through greed and short term economics. And I think that’s a formula for a lot of projects to fail and it’s gonna be a game with hits and misses.
Okay. But with every exciting thing, there’s always like the bad actors. There’s always the greed, I guess. What is like a more of like the optimistic outlook you think for 2022 that we’re approaching?
Well actually I actually think what I said is incredibly optimistic. I think to your point, the internet was insane. In 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, when everybody first heard about it. And a lot of people weren’t even bad actors. They weren’t scams. Their companies were just valued too much because people didn’t anticipate the timing that it would take for everyone to catch on. So I think that my statement there isn’t to create negativity it’s to create caution because I think so many people are gonna buy a $7,000 snail with a party hat. So I view it as, NFTs are like stuffed animals, but there’s gonna be beanie babies in there, there’s gonna be, cabbage patch kids. There’s gonna be things that go up and things that go down. And I just want people to be thoughtful. That’s just on the collecting and the art part. Nfts overall when they become smart contracts for ticketing, access, leases, contracts between people I think are gonna be pretty powerful and I’m really excited about the evolution over next decade.
Love to hear it. Okay. I wanna dive into music. Season four of Mint the whole theme is around music. Okay. I’ve seen videos on you online talking with different artists in your office on how they should be thinking about their NFT music strategy and whatnot. How should musical artists be thinking about NFTs? Right. And I want you to take this from the point of view of independent artists and also artists who have record deals, for example, because the current state, from what we’re seeing, we’re seeing a lot of independent artists see a lot of success from crowdfunding through NFTs, through social tokens, et cetera, how should they be looking at it? You think?
Independents should be looking at it as a financial opportunity versus taking an upfront check from a record label. If they think that they can be great at continued sustained marketing. And so the economics 50 50 deals or 20 80 deals with a label. Is that better than selling a piece of your royalties in perpetuity to your fan base is a really fun and fascinating question. And most people will today won’t put in the work or build the team around them to successfully launch a $500,000 $1 million NFT launch where the artist keeps 80% of the equity and the fans get 20% of the royalties on this first project. And as pennies come in for the Spotify’s and the Apples forever, it gets distributed, but there will be a couple and somebody will be that person that comes along and is the Chance the Rapper, is the Russ, is that person that what chance and Russ did as independents, is much harder than today, than if both of them were 18 coming up the game and knew everything they could do on the blockchain, they would quote unquote, pull it off. And the reason a lot of those artists that stayed independent then signed deals is that short-term influx of a million, 5 million is so hard. I mean, you know, I’m gonna negotiate a new book deal right now, and I could go on chain. I might, I probably will. But Harper Collins, especially cuz we’ve done five books together is gonna have a chance to buy me out from doing the work. But I think a lot of independent artists, 2, 4, 7 years from the filming of this will opt to do a project that represent a piece of the action versus taking up front check because they’ll take all that money and their manager or their homies will become the marketing engine and try to do the things that the record label does to create sustained demand and in a world of SoundCloud and a world of TikTok and everything in the future, that’s gonna come out. That looks like it. I think it’s gonna be viable to the most entrepreneurial and operational music artists, not to the people that are just an artist that don’t even want to deal with it. Those people are gonna continue to sign record deals. And I think it’s a game of both. It is not like these are gonna kill the record industry. It’s just gonna evolve it. Yeah.
Will Record Labels evolve into hedge funds?
So you just mentioned a bunch of stuff that actually I have follow on questions too. Okay. But for starters, what do you think the relationship between like record labels and music artists looks like now with the introduction of NFTs, all these tokenized assets and whatnot. And I only ask you this because back in season three, I had this guest on her name was Latasha super talented artist. It was an amazing story. We basically had this hot take music labels are gonna become like creative hedge funds. Meaning a lot of these, artists are gonna start tokenizing themselves. They’re gonna have different forms of assets on chain, from social tokens to NFTs, to music NFTs, to fandom, to all these different things. And that these record labels might actually evolve into hedge funds. Do you see that kind of coming to fruition? Do you have a different take on that?
I feel like they’re kind of that now, but the collateral is the music royalties and this is just becoming another version of another tool in that toolbox. So I mean, I would argue that that’s what they are today. They’re a bank making bet. 8 out of 10 artists, 9 out of 10, 99 out of a 100, the music people are listening, know this better than I do could be 999 out of a thousand really don’t hit. And if you get an Adelle or Eminem it probably pays for it all. And by the way, no different than hedge funds and venture capital firms. And so, yeah, I think that’s happening now. I think the bigger question is an NFT project can now generate a million or 2 million in an hour if you do it well. Yeah. Will that lead to the fans, getting the royalties versus a record label? Because of the technology of the blockchain is the most interesting conversation in music.
So walk me through that more. So for those who don’t understand.
If you’re Nirvana and you haven’t signed a deal yet, and it’s 1990 and you’re on the come up, 88, 89, Nirvana fans will know this better. I’m just guessing the time range. Instead of signing a deal, you put out an NFT project cuz now it’s 2025 and everybody knows how this all works. And you put out a bunch of tokens with different art, maybe your album cover with different variations. And you say that, this token represents a slither of the royalties. We have, you know, we have a thousand units and you know, it’s going to add up to 20% of our royalties. So 0.2, whatever the math is there and that’s it. And fans can now buy 5, 6, 7 and then as the economics come from the distribution partners of today, you are as a fan getting royalties on the music. I mean, musicians that really hit make a lot of money on royalties in whatever deal or good or bad or in different deal they have. And that is very good for the artist because an artist on a good day will get 50% of the deal with the record label. Sometimes 20%, they also have to pay back the label for every expense. So when the album, when the record gets promoted, they spend a hundred thousand dollars on a billboard. That’s really, the artist is paying that right. Cause they have to pay that back before it’s profitable. I think if you have 10,000 fans who have financial interest in you being successful, we’ve already seen fans of music forever wanna pump their up and coming artist until they hit big and then they get mad.
Because they have gone mainstream.
Now instead of getting mad when Dave Matthews or Nirvana or whoever Lady Gaga exploded, now you’re gonna have people that are thrilled because they’re gonna money. Like, could you Ima like this is gonna change the relationship graph between artists and fans, fans who now were really good at picking up and coming artists almost like a and R, they’re gonna now be able to potentially over the next decade as that’s matured, be part of the action. Imagine you’re living, I know a bunch of people who are passionate about music are gonna hear this and be like, oh, this is exciting. Imagine what you do for a living is try to find up and coming artists and buy their NFTs to get a piece of the royalties. And that you’re good enough at it that the Billy Eilish or the Weekend or the, Roddy rich or whoever you find hits enough that your little sliver cuz you bought seven tokens is strong enough to make it a go.
So that’s the thing. So we’re already seeing like friends aping together creating these multi signature wallets, contributing Eth buying assets of artists that they love and adore that are up and coming on platforms like catalog on sound on mint songs, on Valero, et cetera. Are you buying any yourself? Have you bought any music NFTs?
I have not.
You have any interest to in the future, do you see yourself?
In a substantial way.
Why Buy Music NFTs?
What are you looking for? Like what would you look for?
I have a huge secret weapon. I’ve Mike Boyd. I’ve a unlimited videos on the internet of me sitting down with artists that we thought were gonna be hitting and successful and whether that’s Gunna or whoever, it might be like Tiara whack or you know, Little Key like T Grizzle. Like these are people that I would love to buy. They, you know, Saweetie was in my office doing a podcast when she just got out of doing car wrap videos, you know, if I go and buy 35 of her NFT projects, which represented 0.35% of her royalties, I believed in her, I believe her swag, her hustle, her creativity. I would’ve done really well.
Yeah. Makes sense. I want to talk more about these independent artists because a lot of them are getting much favorability from the Ethereum community. How do you go by building a well oiled machine? Like how can you build a system where the creative, the artist can focus on creating what they do best. And I guess not spend too much time on the day to day labor of community building. And that could be actually taken in a different way. Right? So should the two even be treated separately, right? Because we’re seeing a lot of creatives, like they get the creating part, they understand the producing of music, they get all that stuff. And then when it comes to opening the discord, when it comes so opening the telegram, when it comes to creating consistent content, keeping the narrative alive with their collectors, how do you actually go by doing that? I feel like it’s one of the biggest challenges, plaguing, a lot of these artists from jumping deeper into web three,
They give 3% of the action to the Adam or Gary in their life. These artists have given up 10, 20, 30, 80% of their economics for the last hundred years. They’re gonna build new partnerships. The modern day Scooter Braun these people that came, coach K, these they’re gonna evolve these managers into different business kind of partners. I can take three of my good people right now and start a record label that do all of what you just said better than anybody on earth and dominate.
I’m down.
I think that’s, what’s gonna happen, Adam. I think the role of the manager, the role of the record label, the role of the agent promoter, it’s gonna get convoluted into some new transformed version where the guys and girls that we look up to that have crushed management and representation and distribution will now have to tweak into a new form. The best manager or record label in 1967, went into radio stations and strong armed the guys and girls to play your record. Then it was who could get you on TRL. Then it was like, who understands Spotify algorithm? Like it’s always evolving who brings the most value.
Yea. I kind of see the relationship and this goes back to my other question about like the role between record labels and artists, right? As more and more artists, they tokenize themselves on chain, these record labels will be buying these assets rather than owning the person. Right. They’ll be co-owning pieces of their work. And their role will kind of shift to community managers right. Of managing all these collectors and being in the discords being in the telegrams, being in these communities, setting up IRL events and URL events and whatnot, and seeing that kind of model like evolve as this demand for fan to artist relationship kind of grows. So I kind of see that taking shape and I echo that you kind of feel the same way. I want to jump into social token.
Community management is the slang term you’ve decided to use for it. I would just call it a modern, contemporary marketing executive. Whether it’s discord or making original content on TikTok or knowing how to run Spotify ads. Back to what I do for a living and what Vayner media does for a living. It is a lot more nuanced that has six to 17 things. I think a lot of people think it’s a spoon and I think it’s a Swiss army knife. It’s not just TikTok or discord community management content for TikTok versus Instagram versus YouTube shorts. It’s also running ads to amplify underpriced art. It’s also audio it’s copy it’s influencer marketing arbitrage. It’s community replying in Twitter. It’s meme creation. It’s a lot.
Yeah. It’s, it’s an entire new beast. I’m excited to kind of see it unfold even more over the next few years.
Few years. I agree there was beasts, she and he in 1967 that were just as good at radio and television and doing a print ad and doing an outdoor ad. And that was a 360 marketer in 1967. You were a unicorn, if you could do what I just said, and I’m sure there were plenty of people here on Madison avenue that could, I think one of the things that has been the tell tale of my career is that I can do them all. I can have a podcast. I can win on TikTok. I can have a website, an email letter, a text messaging platform, an NFT project. And I think for the artists that are gonna say, I’m not gonna work with a label, they’re gonna need somebody that’s at least good at two out of seven of those things, three outta seven, four outta seven. Otherwise they’re gonna be better off taking the upfront bag from the label.
Creator Coins vs NFTs?
Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. I wanna pivot into social tokens and creator coins, something that was the impetus of starting Mint from the get go about five, six months ago. I wanted to ask you, why don’t you think creator coins have had their spotlight yet, like NFTs, right? Like in 2020 we saw excitement around platforms like big cloud creating human stock markets. We saw platforms like coinvise, pump out thousands of social token projects and community coins in 2021.
I don’t think they feel as good. I went down the rabbit hole in 17 or 18, right. And really thought about V coin and this and that. And it just feels too much like a financial transaction where an NFT has a different element of collectability community. It just feels different. I’ll give you a good example. Why do people take photos with Rolexes and Berka bags on a yacht in a private plane driving a Lambo, but ever post their bank account.
Do you know how many DMS I get of like random people showing their stock market portfolio.
I think you’ll agree with me that, of course there’s people holding cash people hard cash. You’re actually right. I agree. I think they do more on DM. We see it far less in the main social post, because there’s a level of douchery that you cannot avoid, if you’re gonna go directly to, I got 7 million in my bank account. Mm. But I have this apartment in Malibu on the border, different. It alludes to it. It’s one thing to say, I have $480,000. It’s another thing to say. I have a board yacht club. Yeah. And so I think the reason you’ve seen NFTs go, and this was my thesis is because they’re more how humans actually act. Currencies are very, very one dimension and hard to build back up when dead. Nfts are gonna be like brands, an NFT project can have a big 2011. Let’s pick one. I like a lot. Cool cats, great kids. I hope they dominate. Hope it becomes Disney, but let’s say it doesn’t, it’s had a great year. So you know what that means, Adam. It means if that project doesn’t win over the next decade in 11 years, I can buy that brand, buy up a bunch of the tokens and refurbish it the way the champion went from a private label, sweatpants brand for a 50 year old to the hottest streetwear brand for two years. Right. The way that LA cost was hot in the eighties, dead in nineties and two thousands. And a moment again, the way that Reebok now under the Salters may get rebooted. Like we’ve seen brands go from hot starter jackets up, down, right. That’s what an NFT can do, that a social token will have a much harder time doing.
So then what, what’s the incentive of? Let’s say someone like Board A yacht club the apes as like membership passes into the club and then sharing this grandiose roadmap of a governance token coming into play. Why do you think that’s critical? Do you think it’s a mistake?
I don’t know, because I haven’t really allowed myself yet to be thoughtful enough of tokenization to give you a great answer right now.
Which I think is the beauty of this space too. Right. We’re seeing stuff unfold in real time.
And also I do well when I observe and then communicate quickly, because then I have conviction and I have, I don’t wanna be on your show, have people watch. And then whatever I say right now, if I guess, be wrong, that hurts me. I’m very proud of every, like, I want everybody to watch every video receipt of me for the last 15 years. I think that’s my strength instead of a weakness. I don’t have a good sense yet as an entrepreneur and a businessman of what governance tokens, how they play out. I see the axis stuff. I see it. I see it. It’s all coming. Yeah. It’s all coming. It’s something that I know for sure. I will have a moment probably this year, since it’s mid, late, maybe early 23, that I’ll probably have to ask my question of, am I gonna do anything like that with VeeFriends? Because VeeFriends is forever for me. I’m excited that Board API Yacht club is doing that. I think I heard Cool Cats might do it too. Like, I’m not sure who’s doing it, but I’m gonna be watching all of them to learn and react. My belief is that it’s not super hard to make the tokens, have one set of governance and to have the NFT do a different. But I do think that projects have to be very thoughtful to make sure that the only reason….. They have to make big, big, honest conversations with themselves around. Are we issuing this strictly because it’s good for us financially? Or do we think this is gonna work out long term?
Forming A DAO to buy the jets
Yeah. Makes sense. Let’s talk about DAOs for a minute. Okay. You’ve always wanted to buy the jets. You always talk about it. It’s your lifelong goal. So what do you say? Let’s form a DAO to buy the jets. All different holders will be whitelisted. It’ll be a community owned first community owned NFL team. Right? It’ll be the destination for crypto and football lovers. What do you think let’s do it?
I think first of all, I think it will happen. I mean, I’ve already done it with a soccer team and I wrote a small check cause I wanna watch it and I wanna learn. Yeah. I think the thing that’s really interesting with me is that, I’ve been clearing this up for the last six years. Cause I want people to really know cuz it might help them. My passion is trying to buy the jets more than actually buying them. So I it’s run through my mind. I’ll keep watching the space. I also know that it’d be highly unlikely that the NFL owners would want that to be the case as my intuition, I could be wrong, but my great love affair is the process much more than the destination. My goal is to buy is to try to buy the jets more than to buy the jets. And I’m still young. I’m 46 years old. I wanna keep building blocks. And so I’m not in a quote unquote rush and I still have a lot of value I need to bring to the world, if I was to then go any kind of route that looked like that. And so it’s not on my radar.
Well, when it does come on your radar, I hope you decide to form a DAO and include all of us to buy it collectively.
You know this, your educated. I think it’s really fun to watch the DAOs. There’s a lot of things on earth that are amazing ideologies and then go against the human spirit. So one thing that I’m excited to see how DAOs play out is like, it’s great to think about these things, but like we’ve seen a ton of DAOs really struggle with human behavior. So there’s gonna be continued innovation. And I think the DAOs of 2025 are gonna be a hell of a lot more thoughtful and sharper than the DAOs of 2021.
Yeah. I think the current state of DAOs is a lot of people want to create DAOs but a lot of people like don’t want to contribute to them as much. I think a lot of people want to create governance processes, but a lot of people don’t want to contribute to those government processes.
People don’t even vote.
Similarities between building an MVP and an MVC
A lot of people don’t even vote. You end up seeing that the largest shareholders, like the funds end up controlling the direction of the protocol and you see them voting publicly on Snapshot or their own governance forms or whatnot. So in theory, I think, yes, there’s a lot of opportunity. I’ve started DAOs I’ve contributed to DAOs. I love the concept of DAOs. I love seeing artists issue assets of themselves like music artists, whether it be in the form of an, an NFT, a social token, whatever it may be. And then all these collectors coming together, collectively building this artist. So I think there’s different use cases that come into play that make it notable and worth exploring. I think like you said, these ideologies can kind of like stifle people and blur vision. All right. Let’s talk about minimum viable communities. This is something that I introduced on the podcast in like October 2021. And this concept of an MVC, how do you think about the differences and the SIM similarities between building an MVP and an MVC? What comes to mind?
What comes to mind is they work because you’re crawling before you run. Like I’m sitting with kids that have never built anything in their life and their opening line is like Gary, I’m building Hello Kitty. I’m like, brother, you haven’t even launched anything in your life. You have never run anything. And I’m all about it. I’m all about it. I’m like sister, you got this, I’m cheering for you. I’ll help you. Who can I help you with? But like I love MV whatever, because it creates a framework for people to be more thoughtful, patient. There are so many people doing everything right now for a cash grab, short term. I’m so excited how this is gonna play out for me because I know I’m doing this for the rest of my life. And I think 99.9999999% of the people are not. And for me, that gives me great comfort because I think historically that will play out well, for me. I’m concerned about the people that buy these NFTs because I think so many will fail for the reason that we’re talking about. But I love it. It’s how I started my career. Do you know many people in the first three years of wine lottery TV, there were 700 people that adored me three years, by the way, then I had to restart because I decided I wanted to do content about my actual life. Not just my wine. So I almost had to restart because all my wine people were like, don’t what are you doing? You don’t do business. You do wine. I’m like, no, I’ve been doing business the whole time.
But that’s the thing. How do you find those 700 people? Like the minimum viable people.
They find you. It’s all content. You don’t find them. They find you through content. It’s very easy right now for NFT projects, go put out thoughtful content on Twitter, put hashtag NFT link to your discord in your profile and let people come. 1, 2 17 or 190 at a time based on the quality of the concept you put out. The number one issue and this is why I push it like a fucker. Everybody is so uncomfortably impatient to build something meaningful, that all the comments, all the questions, all the strategies are grounded in instant success, which is why they’ll all fail from 2007 to 2011. I spent more than five hours a day on Twitter, replying to people about wine questions. Every day. Right? It’s documented. If I pull up my Twitter right now, right? Let me just pull it up. I have, how do you find this? Where did they put these now? I’m looking for how many tweets I’ve put out. Where do they put that?
I feel like it should be on the top of your profile.
I thought so too, but I don’t
I’m guessing like a million to million, something like that.
I don’t it’s that high.
Cause like as you’re finding that. Okay. So those first 700 people. Okay. When a creator, when an independent artist, when someone entering the space, tries to build that initial pulse around their vision, around their ideologies. Your take is to push out content, add these hashtags and like tap into these like discovery mechanisms that allow you to kind of find these people that resonate with what you’re trying to do. Is that how you’re approaching it. Right. So like, let’s say for like independent artists, okay. They want to issue music NFTs. They want to find collectors. How do they build like an MVC? How do they actually go by doing that?
They spend six months learning about NFTs and live on discord and Twitter. Or again, like I said earlier, have their homey right-hand manager, 2.0, do it. Cause there is no other way to do it. Yeah. Because the NFT community that knows how to buy an NFT today is too small, too tech savvy, too different. And they have incredible cynicism to anybody who’s not native. They don’t like famous people they can smell right. They can smell and so every authentic small community can always smell. And right now NFT buyers are too small.
Trends in 2022 and beyond
I know we’re running outta time. Okay. Let’s let’s wrap this up with a couple more questions. Okay. Really quick, biggest trends you’ve observed in 2021 that you see will set the tone for 2022 fired off
I’m sorry to say this, but it’s important to me. Greed is taking over. Something that in the macro is revolutionary. NFTs are here to stay for the rest of our lives. But 99% of the projects that are out right now will not be good investments. It’s a huge trend. It’s important for everybody listening here. I got everybody here the flip side. Yeah. When internet stocks crashed in 2000, Amazon and eBay were sitting there for dollars. And if you put in a thousand, it would’ve changed your life forever.
I think it’s a mic drop. So look for the dollars, follow the quality.
Whether it’s sport eight, whether it’s VeeFriends, whether it’s Creatures, World of Women, Doodles, Board API club, and friends, seven to 12 of these are gonna hit in the eighties. All these afterschool television shows, cartoons, Heman, Rainbow, bright care bears. Transformers. A lot of them hit many more, never made it on the air and many more made it on the air and didn’t hit. That’s what’s happening right now.
Game: Bullish or Bearish?
Final series real quick. I wanna introduce something first time on Mint. Okay. Called bullish or bearish. All right. I’m gonna fire some things at you. So, and you’re gonna tell me whether you’re bullish or bearish on them. Okay. Social tokens, bullish or bearish.
Social as in like around people?
Like the currencies, like creator coins, community coins, et cetera.
Neutral. Tell you why. In theory, I like it. Most of the behavior around it right now. Short term cash grab.
Okay. Music NFTs bullish or bearish bullish.
Bullish.
Punks, flipping apes, bullish or bearish?
In perpetuity.
Yeah.
Bullish.
Were you surprised when that happened? When apes whipped punks?
I mean, BAYC has got so much momentum kudos to that team. Ga Siri, the original founders. Sometimes runaway trains are runaway trains. Their challenge, like for anything that gets that ultra hot is Nike just steams along. And you have moments of, you know, the kits, the Supremes that right. And so like what their challenge will be is sustaining the ultra-ness in those very hot things. And by the way, I’m cheering for them. I hope they do it. It’s hard. It’s like any supernova, right? Like a superstar, that lady Gaga is a legend, but like, it’s not what it was when she was on television, every second coming out of it. Right. Yeah. It’s like those moments that’s hard. And I think they’ve got the talent to do it. I mean, you look at Gao Siri, he’s managed Madonna. One of the few people that has been able to consistently do so like a really fun to watch, but it’s gonna be hard.
V friends, flipping apes and punks bullish or bearish.
Bullish. I think I’m gonna build the number one project in the space. If you give me the rest of my life, but much like trying to buy the jets, I just want try to do that. Like 78 year old, me seeing the larva guys or seeing the board eight and them being five, 10 X to me, I go up there with handshake and like real love, like, man, you guys really like, I’m really proud of what I did, but you like, I love giving roses to people that outperform me in my business. When I met the Sam’s wine club, people Sam’s in Chicago, big wine store. When I met Bob Offman may he rest in peace when they were a much bigger store than wine library and doing it better. I couldn’t wait to run up to him at the wine spectator and be like, you guys are doing like, even though every day of my life, I’m trying to do it better. I love when people outperform me because it’s based on merit. But do I believe that VeeFriends will be number one? I do, because I think, I think I’m more Walt Disney and Vince McMan and I’ve talked about who’s two and I think I’m that and I’m going to do it.
Last two DAOs bullish or bearish.
Very bullish.
Very bullish. Okay. The US operating like a version of a DAO, where every citizens vote is captured on chain during political elections, bullish or bearish?
Bearish.
Really? Okay. Yeah.
I think there’s gonna be too much defense in Washington for that.
Gary, this was fun, man. Thank you so much for your time. I hope to have you on again soon.
Happy holidays. See ya.