Mint Season 6 episode 12 welcomes Jenil Thakker, Founder of Coinvise, an open platform on Ethereum where creators can launch a social & build a tokenized community. For the next half hour we spoke about the launch of the new airdrop tool on coinvise, expectations for the new feature, how the airdrop filter works, and so much more.
I hope you guys enjoy our conversation.
- 00:06 – Intro
- 01:40 – Membership NFTs
- 06:00 – The Airdrop Tool
- 07:21 – Incentivizing Participation
- 10:04 – Expectations for the Airdrop Feature
- 13:06 – How the Airdrop Filter Works
- 14:54 – Thoughts On People Airdrop Hacking
- 17:11 – The Next Focus for Coinvise
- 19:14 – ETH Berlin
- 21:59 – Who Else is Using Sponsorship NFTs?
- 24:33 – Current State of the Web3 Creator Economy
- 26:29 – Details for Today’s Announcement
Support Season 6’s NFT Sponsors
🌿 Lens Protocol
Lens Protocol is a composable and decentralized social graph, ready for you to build on so you can focus on creating a great experience, not scaling your users.
Learn more by visiting: https://lens.xyz/
(🍄,🔍) Bello: The #1 for blockchain analytics tool for web3 creators
Bello is the no-code blockchain analytics tool that empowers web3 creators and communities with actionable insights on their collectors through a simple search.
Join private Beta: https://www.bello.lol/join
Jenil, we’re in Berlin. What’s up, man? Welcome to mint, how are you doing? Round three, I think.
Jenil Thakker: Round three.
Jenil Thakker: Thank you for having me.
Yes, season one. I think you’re one of the first episodes and then last season we did one on membership NFTs. And then today what are we doing?
Jenil Thakker: Today we’re doing airdrops
Jenil Thakker: A new feature on Coinvise is launching, airdrops is our like, most used tool and our oldest tool. When I started Coinvise in about late 2020. Airdrop is the first thing we worked on. It was token creation and Airdrops, but I had about $2,000 in my savings, and we work together to build out Airdrops, I think we worked two weeks, and we shipped a feature out and it was the exact same tool, which we, which we’re upgrading today. It was the claim page. So, anybody could create their own claim page and share it on social media, and you can create like a retroactive Airdrop like platforms can. And now we’ve upgraded Airdrops to three different tools. You can send it to wallet addresses, you can create your own claim page. And you can do NFT Airdrops as well. Yeah.
So, last conversation we had was on membership NFTs and now the focus is on air drops. Why focus on air drops? What opportunity are you seeing?
Jenil Thakker: Yeah, I mean, we’re focusing on Airdrops and membership NFTs in conjunction. And we see these two connected in a way where the user can embed Airdrops into membership NFTs. And membership NFTs could be automated with Airdrops as well. And I’m happy to go more deeper into what that looks like. But yeah, those are the two core tools we’re working on today.
Okay, cool. So, I remember you guys had a really viral tweet that happened about two months ago, right? When you guys announced membership NFTs, I’m curious sort of how that announcement go like what was the progression since you guys issued membership NFTs and yeah, I guess the next obvious step would be airdrops because once you build a community using membership NFTs, you want to reward, you want to maybe do some marketing, etc. Airdrops are good way to do it. Yeah.
Jenil Thakker: Yeah. So initially, when we did the membership NFT announcement, we wanted to sort of showcase the idea that membership NFT should look like drag and drop sort of utilities that you can plug into sort of like your Patreon tier, which has benefited a series of benefits for, you know, whenever somebody purchases that tier, and they get access to them, what does the web three version of that look like? So, we introduced something called plugins. And those plugins could be access to discord, those plus plugins could be access to events, it could be, you know, you could route some of the funds or revenue to public goods funding, there could be just a number of benefits that you can get, which are all enforced on chain. And one of the benefits or one of the plugins that we designed was Airdrop, because Airdrop is something we’ve been working on for, I don’t know, about a year and a half now. So, we added that as one of the benefits or plugins for membership and NFTs. So, whenever somebody purchases your membership NFT, they automatically get an Airdrop and the same transaction.
And this sort of idea was something that we were trying to communicate with that tweet that it is all like, it’s not like I’m promising something to my community, to my audience. And then there was this missing link that off like sort of accountability, that once I raise a certain amount of Eth, or dollars from a crowd fund, or from selling NFTs, there was no sort of like obligation for me to even add that value six months down the line, two years down the line. And for projects to truly build networks, it was important that a lot of the value was given back to the audience or community on chain and was proven on chain. So, at Coin vise, we decided okay, why don’t we just build use cases and integrate with plugins like that, where you can just give an Airdrop every time somebody purchases an NFT, which is how, which is why that tweet went viral. And obviously now we’re trying to improve Airdrops more than what it is today, which I can obviously.
Yeah, I’m trying to think of like the use cases around why someone wouldn’t, like create an Airdrop right after they claim something. So, like, if you mint NFT, okay, you get that and then you automatically get something sent to your wallet. Right? What are the use cases behind why you would do something that because typically, you just see like phase one of issuing memberships NFTs and then down the line, you see maybe an ERC 20 Get issued as a form of governance, right. As a form of like community currency. Why do them for example, in the same type of transaction or like, like simultaneously?
Jenil Thakker: Yeah, so a lot of membership NFTs like the word says, they represented access to a community. It was something that wasn’t seen as a mechanism for creating liquidity or using for governance. Maybe they were used for governance, but they were extensively used for access to a private channel in our Discord, or access to a small group of people, right? And Airdrops have community tokens specifically. So, if you have a community and the community ends up having a token, even if you’re a personal creator yourself, you can sort of give those tokens for broader use cases outside of the NFT. So, we saw, before we launched this as a plugin, we saw a lot of people asking us, hey, I want to sort of Airdrop tokens to all the people that invested in us, when we release it, because you sort of want to, like distribute tokens or ownership to people that truly support you. Right? So might as well like sort of create this automation where you having to do it later or even like you having to, like expand use cases to governance, or are you know, like the tokens itself represented as like royalties. Those were made possible with like community tokens are fungible tokens. And this is optional. So, if fungible token is indeed something that comes down the line, and if liquidity is not something you’re thinking about right now, because the community is in its early stages, NFTs memberships alone can be released, and one of the plugins is discord access, which is live right now. You can start creating a discord and automatically people get access when they purchased the NFT.
The Airdrop Tool
Okay, cool. I’m trying to think of like, examples, like in practice, the most iconic Airdrops I think, if you’ve been in the space for long enough is the uniswap Airdrop, right. I remember where I was, when I got that. I think that was like, it was probably the first Airdrop as well, right? 420, uniswap, or spore 20 tokens, I think at some point even got up to like 15k for that, $100, $420 that I got for free. And from that point on, like we had an Airdrop frenzy. That was two summers ago, right. Looking back today, how would you say, cuz you’ve been working on this Airdrop tool for a while now, as you said, how have you seen sort of the evolution of airdrops from like a feature point of view, from a marketing point of view, from a timing point of view, etc.
Jenil Thakker: Yeah. So initially, I mean, like you said, it was uniswap Airdrop, then we saw the ENS Airdrop, and there were a lot of other platforms in between, I think looks rare did an airdrop and a lot of the overarching theme for all these Airdrops was recruitment. There’s a really good article written on speaking about that Airdrops can be used really well for recruitment, whether it’s recruitment of users, for your platform, for community members, for our community, or even recruiting the right people to support your project and become your early community data project.
Got it. Okay. Got it. So, what does this article actually outline? Because it still doesn’t really create like the initial question was like, how do you create like meaningful connections? Right, right. How do you incentivize long term participation, so that users actually feel like have a voice in whatever system they’re playing in?
Jenil Thakker: Yeah. So, this is the core problem that we are trying to address with Airdrops? version Three, is to date, Airdrops on Coinvise, were similar, very similar to Airdrops, how you’ve seen till today, is you can send tokens to a group of people by creating a claim page or by distributing to wallet addresses. But again, you have to come up with incentives yourself. And you have to like sort of figure out what how you like, give that value back to your community and how value is accrued over a certain period of time. With version three on coin vise, we’ve sort of build templates or plugins. And these plugins are essentially just meaningful forms of contribution or participation. This is the one thing we say in our company a lot, is distribute tokens at the speed of participation. And participation is the core problem. We’re trying to solve with Airdrops because that’s the missing link. And that’s something that you should distribute ownership on, is participate. And that’s how like conditional to participation is how you should distribute tokens.
How would you sort of define participation in an independent creator’s use case?
Jenil Thakker: Yeah, I think like it like for independent creators, I think participation is a like some kind of collective effort into a producing media or like helping them produce media or helping expand the network and strengthen that network. Because a lot of times, it’s not, you know, the number of people in the community, they’re more interested in building stronger relationships. So, anything that contributes meaningfully to building that network stronger, or if media is something that you’re producing as an independent creator, if you can sort of crowdsource content in a very high-quality way, you sort of become a really large team that’s collectively building media on the Internet, but a lot of aligned values. And I think that could be really powerful in so many ways, even efficient, with a lot of battery tools that are out there. But Airdrops could be programmed to be distributed to these people that are A, like helping you provide content or helping you filter content and make sure it’s like the right quality or B, helped, like, further strengthen the network. And you can sort of figure out what’s more important to you, but ultimately, what’s always important or what makes somebody hold their token is either the people or the content or the media that you produce.
Right. Yeah, got it, got it. Okay. So right now, we’re in Berlin. It’s basically Berlin blockchain week, Berlin is towards the end of the week. This is the first time we’re meeting. We’ve known each other for over a year.
Jenil Thakker: Over a year.
Expectations for the Airdrop Feature
Over a year. Maybe close to a year and a half. Yeah. You’re the reason one of the main reasons, if not the primary reason why mint got started. I remember you called, or we were talking about doing some type of token project at the time. And you were also looking for people to do marketing, whatever. And I just had left my job at Draper going home to start the podcast. And it’s funny because a lot of why originally quit Draper going home was to start a token-based community for creator and was thinking of using coin vise essentially, as that foundation to sort of launch the token, build a community around it, etc. And I’m curious how you sort of, and that was about a year and a half ago. So how are Airdrops being used then, right? And now with this new feature that you’re introducing, how do you expect them to be used now?
Jenil Thakker: Yeah, so Airdrops before were used for rewarding soft contributions, and rewarding community specific interactions that were, hey, go retweet this tweet. Hey, help me moderate this discord call or hey, why don’t you sort of help manage our community, and we will sort of give you X amount of returns every month. So, there were sort of community specific actions that were rewarded with tokens. And what we realized is A, Airdrops should be participation first, and because these tokens are valuable, and they often represent ownership in our community, even though they’re utility tokens, so even if they’re non liquid tokens, what are some ways which are meaningful forms of participation that you can scope out, they can sort of be applied to a lot of the creator communities that we work with today. Right? So, we sort of made a list. And some of the used cases that really stood out for airdrops was a, this week’s something we’ve seen with platforms to but vampire attacks, I think vampire attacks, has been like the overarching theme of like, go to market strategy for a lot of individuals, creators, platforms, this is our sushi swap became is because of the vampire deck. And essentially, for people who don’t know vampire attack is essentially when a sushi swap, did Airdrop tokens to people, I think that were uniswap liquidity, LP token holders. And now you if you go to coin vise, you can essentially just fetch any token, so you can put in, let’s say, bankless Dao. And it’ll return all the tokens of a bankless Dao holder, and you can Airdrop them tokens directly to their wallet. So, we’ve sort of built plugins for popup. So, you can get all the people that hold a particular popup, all you have to do is just put in an ID, or you can put, you can get all the people that voted for a snapshot proposal. So, you can just put in the proposal ID, or you can get all any kind of token holder, token NFT or like reward participation on Twitter. And all these tools are like all no code. So, before we saw people, like manually trying to fetch these addresses, and then Airdrop them, but now you can just put in the token, or putting the Popup ID or snapshot ID for governance, and you can Airdrop them tokens for meaningful contribution.
How the Airdrop Filter Works
Got it. So, I like how you sort of segmented the Airdrop tool around either a certain action or a certain sort of filter, right? I’m curious how to what extent this filter sort of go. So, can I find people who were a part of bankless, who also signed signatures, who have about X amount in their wallet, right? And extract that accordingly?
Jenil Thakker: Yeah, so this is exactly the idea is when you look at the optimism Airdrop, they also had certain conditions on what made you a valuable member to the optimism collective. Right. And one of them was, you should be a good coin grantee, you should have participated in their governance proposals, you should have been, like, you know, participated on the optimism network. So, what makes you valuable as a community member is, a that you’ve participated in any form of their governance, snapshot has been by far the most popular. And even when we did user interviews, the requests for a lot of these like, hey, I want you to automate X and reward Y tokens. Right? They range from like really wide, like really like way things like hey, I want to distribute tokens for them having to do some kind of work. So that was like bounties or D work. All the way to like really specific is like if they read this article on my website, I wanted to distribute them tokens. So, we sort of had to find a middle ground on what was possible and what was like, what is something that we can do on chain at scale for multiple communities. So, popup. I mean, if you think about it for creative communities, hosting events is the best way to build and strengthen relationships. So, we saw most of the events that we attended or even studied. popups were one tool that they used almost every single time.
Thoughts On People Airdrop Hacking
It’s like, go back to the events point of view. Like I haven’t seen too many creators sort of throw events and races from like individual creators, music creators, whatever. Maybe they don’t need to, maybe it’s very much irrelevant to them. But one sort of group that continuously does events that I just like always remember like Ravi like Ave, right? There’s DEF CON happening in Colombia and a few months, they’re doing a Ave. It’s like such a cool way to bring people together. But also meet developers, right? Show them a good time, celebrate, do all these things. And now they can maybe even take it one step further, by kind of like everybody that sort of kind of like attend all Ave events, being able to extract that information in a very seamless way, okay, cool. I’m also trying to think in terms of bots, because all these civil attacks, they’re very real. And there’s certain groups that are sort of dedicated to Airdrops and they built like insane bot communities and yeah, fake profiles and fake addresses, etc. What do you have to say to those people?
Jenil Thakker: Yeah, I think it’s a very real problem, which is why we’ve like carefully selected some of the templates we’ve built on how you sort of get those addresses and how you can sort of combine all of these conditions together. So snapshot, it’s very difficult to do a bot attack, even though, even if you could, participating, or like doing a bot attack on a particular proposal and making it sort of go one way or the other. And then once you win. you sort of get air dropped is extremely difficult to do. Same thing with popups if you went to Rave. And if you have the popup, it’s really difficult to acquire that popup, if you were at rate, right. So, we sort of built like, we’re going slow in the sense that we’ve built these considering like bots in the first place, and otherwise, like the previous version of coin vise, was very open ended. So, you could do a lot of these things. And I think that’s when it was like a huge problem. But now, you can sort of choose and you can just select these, and these are, like pre-configured for you right out of the box. So, you can like do multiple conditions, you can say you must have attended Ravi, you must have voted in this proposal, you must hold 75 FWB and you must be like, let’s say a gitcoin grantee. And if you mix those, no, I mean, it’s really difficult to satisfy all of those, right?
The Next Focus for Coinvise
Yeah, cuz like you’d have to actually be a human to do those things. Okay, interesting. So, membership NFTs, Airdrops, what do you imagine being the next focus?
Jenil Thakker: Yeah, so the idea is to go deeper into Airdrops and membership NFT. The premise of coin vise is to build no code tools. So, building communities is easier. And we want to sort of we’ve mean, over the past 1.5 years, we’ve identified that to be able to build start and just grow networks in general Airdrops and membership NFTs play a crucial role. membership NFTs is a great way to start out. So, if you’re just starting out, you might launch membership NFTs that would attract your early community. You will progressively do Airdrops as in when they participate more. So that’s A, acquisition and B, retention with airdrops, and you continue doing that over a period of time for different meaningful forms of participation. So, that’s exactly what we’re going to do with coin vise, we’re going to add more plugins for memberships. So that right now, you have you can add in an Airdrop add an access to discord as a benefit. And obviously, you can add custom benefits to your tiers. But you could in future, you’d be able to add like you get access to events online and watch in person, you get access to, let’s say, some kind of media or content, because a lot of creators produce content, you just drag and drop that into your tier, and we make sure that you sort of are able to token gate that. Same thing for Airdrops, we want people to be able to do Airdrops similar to how ENS or a lot of these platforms are doing but in a very meaningful way. So, you can add these conditions, like I just mentioned, and we’re going to add more and more of these plugins, you can think of it like similar to Zapier, where we build these integrations, so that it’s easier for you to build a community.
So, it feels like a marketplace, essentially.
Jenil Thakker: Yeah.
Like a plug-in store, essentially.
Jenil Thakker: It’s just a variety of used cases. And we just want to like show our users used cases when they go to our platform because before it was just, they had to come up with use cases. But now they just see all the used cases right in front of them and you just drag and drop like Lego blocks.
Yeah, very cool. I like that. That’s like a big focus on like user experience, a big focus on like on product because we lack, I still think we lacked like really good products. In crypto consumer facing products. Yeah, man. This is super cool. Super exciting. What’s on your agenda for Eth Berlin?
Jenil Thakker: So, for Eth Berlin, I mean, this week is really important to us because we’re releasing Airdrops version three. We’re releasing a billion glorious music NFTs. This is one of the first used cases of music NFTs going live on coin vise. He’s going to be doing his sort of Patreon style subscription tiers for access to his content, all via coin vise so you can pay in Eth, and you get access to a lot of his content, as well as a lot of the music albums that he’s going to be producing in future, we’re also doing membership NFTs. And going live with Eth vest Dao, which is an investment Dao based out of LA. And their membership NFTs are now live on coin vise, you can go to Eth members on coin vise and check it out. And then we are doing membership NFTs with rider. And these are like sort of sponsorship. So, they’re hosting an event in the future, which obviously everybody will learn more about. But they’re raising their funds for this, for the event with sponsorships. And all the sponsors can go to coin vise get the NFTs. And for like coined those NFTs, they get a certain amount of benefits, visibility. Sponsorship is also very interesting used case that we see over and over again, because most of these events that you see in crypto are funded via sponsorships, even like content that is produced today. If you’re writing a premium newsletter, a lot of the sort of funds are raised by riders from sponsorships today, believe it or not. So, I think that was also a really interesting avenue for us to explore.
How did you figure out that correlation riders bring in a lot of the sponsorships just like newsletter ads?
Jenil Thakker: Yeah, I mean, we saw like a lot of the newsletters that I read or even if like you talk to you or go over a lot of the top 10, top 20 publications, most of the people if you look at them, I think, I forgot the number, but you can actually contact them. And some of them, you know have them on their about page, is you can sort of get featured on their newsletter because they get certain views. And that’s how they, that’s like an additional source of revenue that they have in addition to subscriptions.
Okay, so you see sponsorship NFTs as being a?
Jenil Thakker: Yeah, something’s going on. I mean, I just think that this is one of those areas, which is a bit more under explored. And this is one of those early used cases where sponsorship NFTs could be used as a way for creators and communities to get funding or even, like attract people from the outside to work with.
Who Else is Using Sponsorship NFTs?
So, I’ve been using sponsorship NFT since episode one, your first person to collect my first sponsorship NFT. And I think I’ve given it like over 15 today across six seasons or something, which is crazy to think about. And a really cool concept because all revenue for me has been on chain, since like day zero. And I haven’t really seen anybody really explore like sponsorship based NFTs like NFT that unlocks a certain level of utility, if collected. For me, though, I kind of see it as the as like my sort of steppingstones to building some type of on chain community in the future. And these brands playing a role beyond just sending me money, right? And me just like promoting the brand kind of thing, like they have something to collect for them to see that they were part of the community, for the community to see who else is collecting alongside them. Right? Yeah, super, super cool. Have you seen any other communities sort of mingle and like mess around with the sponsorship NFTs?
Jenil Thakker: Of course.
So, is it, but is it just from the point of view of just like sending money on chain to then receive utility or do they get an NFT in return?
Jenil Thakker: Yeah, so this is perfect segue. We just did FWB fest. And coin vise was one of the sponsors in FWB fest. And that was a perfect example of what sponsorship NFTs could look like. Being like one of the partners of FWB fest, we got to Airdrop NFT’s to people that attended the fest and even attended some of the sessions. As well as like, it was a great way for us to get utility because we were physically at the event, we hosted a workshop, we sort of got access to a wider community of artists, that we’re all there in person. And we could do like a session on what coin vise has to offer. So as a brand, and as somebody working with FWB I think it was a great opportunity for us to explore like what sponsorship NFTs could look like. And once we started like seeing more of those examples with like, I started radar, which is going live this week, and a few other communities’ refraction is one of them, refraction as an events community. There’s so many other Daos, even pizza Dao, a lot of these communities, if you like sort of scope out and see where does the Treasury come from? Sponsorship NFTs is like, are just sponsorship or advertisement revenue that creators do for brands is like huge portion of it. And I think that could be an interesting used case of membership NFTs themselves. Because when you’re sort of working with a brand, you’re like, that’s your acquisition costs. That’s your community building cost. So, I think like that’s something that could unlock a lot more potential. So, I’m interested in seeing what it’s got.
Current State of the Web3 Creator Economy
Yeah, really, really cool. I still think sponsorship based NFTs are super early. Yeah. Let alone NFTs in general of course. Yeah, I’m curious for you to also like to also hear your point of view of, you’ve been in the creative economy space building web three for a minute. What have you seen sort of the vibe is right now? Considering we’re in a bear market, in terms of like creators doing new projects, funding all these other cool things that are happening in and around like creators?
Jenil Thakker: Yeah, I think like, if you look, ask anybody, it’s like one of the ones difficult times for funding But I think like, some of the, I guess gaps are wide, if you look at just scope out for projects, and web three, one of them is like messaging. Messaging has been the weakest link in web three for a really long time. So, I think we’re starting to see like better UX and better UI, but also, that should be in conjunction with real used cases. So, seeing a lot of used cases evolve is something that I’m really interested in seeing. And one of them that I’m seeing is with yield XYZ, they’re doing membership management. And that was, it was one of those first platforms that showed us that, if you show people use cases in a templatized way, where everything comes out of the box, and you can sort of create unique things out of it, I think that was like something very powerful. And that showed the message. So, I think more of that, where you don’t work against, but you sort of work with a lot of the platforms that are complementary to you. And that was a great article, like it goes way back in the 90s, on how dungeons and dragons evolved. And Joel Spolsky wrote an article on commoditize your compliment, which is very popular, is essentially saying every platform that are or every tool that plays complementary to do, you sort of commoditize that, and what ends up leaving is sort of the core value that you end up adding. And that’s the best way to build a community, which is how dungeons and dragons became one of the biggest games in history.
Details for Today’s Announcement
Got it. Super exciting stuff. Really, really cool. I’m excited to see how people sort of integrate their membership NFT on coin vise, now with Airdrops and sort of like what the evolution is from here, I guess before we wrap this up and go into our time at Eth, Berlin, any last words? What sort of details do we need to know for this announcement that’s dropping today?
Jenil Thakker: Yeah, so, Ardrops version three, the biggest part, our biggest change for Airdrops for claim page and sending tokens to multiple wallet addresses. I guess for multiple wallet addresses. If you’re sending them tokens directly to their wallet. Now you have the option to essentially just type in the token, and it’ll send you all the token holders. And it works for tokens, it works for NFT. So, you can say, give me all the people that hold crypto punks. And also give me all the people that hold more than 75 FWB and you can pick and choose multiple of these options and snapshot popup. And you can sort of curate what kind of audience you’re trying to reach out to and then distribute tokens and you can do it progressively in a continuous way because token distributions are meant to be done again and again. Like I said, distribute tokens at the speed of participation. So, I think that’s something that keep an eye out for if you’re going to coin vise, try to just play around with it and see like what makes sense for your community. Maybe try to curate and send tokens people that actually add value and then even for claim pages you can say you must hold this NFT to claim this Airdrop, you must hold these popups, you can add as many conditions as you want. So, I guess check it out. All these conditions and ways to get these addresses are live. It’s all no code. And now you can create your Airdrop in seconds.
Amazing. Congratulations with the drop. Congratulations and the announcement. This was fun as always, third episode. Can’t wait for the fourth one. But yeah, man, thanks for being on.
Jenil Thakker: Thank you for having me.