Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcast | Google Podcast
Mint Season 1 episode 4 features Bomani X, a Black guitarist, singer-songwriter, and celebrity digital strategist who has worked with Jill Scott, Nicki Minaj, Lil Wayne, Wyclef, and more. He’s also the founder of Lit.Spins and was selected as Clubhouses’ icon for the longest time.
More recently, he’s known for his social token $BOO and in this episode, we talk about how social tokens will revolutionize the music industry, his vision for $BOO, how he’s created a utility for token holders by playing games on Clubhouse, and much more.
Thank you to Season 1’s NFT sponsors!
1. Coinvise – https://coinvise.co/
2. POAP – https://poap.xyz/
Interested in sponsoring future seasons? Get in touch here!
Adam Levy: I appreciate you being on, what are you playing right now?
Bomani X: Uh, yeah, I’m playing this PRS Silver Sky, John Mayer’s addition guitar and yeah, it’s picked this up about probably exactly around this time last year.
Adam Levy: Really? There you go.
Bomani X: So it’s been a cool ride [Inaudible]
Adam Levy: Nice dude I see you I see all over the place on clubhouse on YouTube on Spotify on SoundCloud. I see you working with different people. So I’m excited to have you on it’s really a pleasure I’ve been wanting to do and have you on for some time. And as I’m building more of the show out, I figured what better way to start it off than with Bomani himself Bomani X. And you have quite the story getting started. And I mean, recently you caught headwinds being the clubhouse icon. And I feel like that was a wild ride within itself that we’ll kind of, we’ll kind of dive deeper into but I want to kind of start with your background. Tell me a little bit more about you. Where are you from originally how you got into music, like your upbringing and all that?
Bomani X: Um, yeah, so like, you know, born in New York, you know, kind of raised in like a, you know, predominantly like Nation of Islam household with a lot of like, strong emphasis on like, education, you know, like community values. You know, entrepreneurship. And in growing up, I’ve always kind of been just like, kind of, like tech aligned, you know, and just, like, interested in like, technology and computers and, and nerd culture, and stuff like that. It wasn’t particularly until, like, high school. Like, when I started to really get interested in music. My dad had like, x the, my little sister, like, you know, do you want to pick up an instrument? Do you want to play music, like you know, of creativity has always been something that’s being innovated and create creative has always been something that my core so you know, my dad kind of, like, recognised that it was like, do you want to play an instrument? Originally, I chose the drums.
Adam Levy: That’s what I’m talking about man, drummers all the way bro drummers all the way.
Bomani X: And my, my little sister picked up a guitar. But very quickly, I started just naturally gravitating towards, her guitar, and that as an instrument that kind of like, just like fit my vibe, you know, just being able to just chill and you know, watch TV and play and be creative and just like, on my own terms, as opposed to like, some of the value and restrictions that drummers have to deal with. But yeah, that’s kind of like my first introduction to music, you know, then like, I went to college, I went to Howard University, met like my best friend, and bandmate, like, the first day of school, and what did you study there? I was originally a bio major ended up like switching and getting my degree in philosophy. But yeah, just like music and like, some of the experiences were just like, the beauty of like collaboration and connecting with like bandmates, and music and like how much of a role that was playing in my life and like, early, you know, college, like late high school like that, kind of like shaped like, that being like a major part of like my future and like, always, creating some sort of like techno musical bridge was kind of the goal. Because of that.
Adam Levy: It’s funny, because I am also a drummer, I’ve been playing since five years old ever since I can remember. And when I got started, I actually started the exact opposite, you started playing the drums and transitioned out, my dad didn’t want to get a drum set at home. He’s like, that’s the last thing I’m going to do. And he actually tried to get me on the piano on the guitar. And a bunch of other things before, he said, Alright, whatever, I’ll just get you a kit. And from there, it’s been history and there’s nothing like music, there’s nothing like connecting with other people and, and collaborating on a tool. And that just then rolls out into a full song in a jam session in a solo session. There’s nothing more empowering than that. But it’s funny because how you transition into philosophy, right? Or psychology was philosophy, right? Which has a lot of psychological components. I mean, to some extent, but I guess how is that kind of led you to where you’re at right now?
Bomani X: I think I mean originally like even like being a bio major and Like wanting to go to med school, like I’ve always been, like, a, you know, I mean plan, I was like, hey, I want to be a brain surgeon. For some reason, like, you know, I’ve always been interested in like people, you know, thoughts and ideas and just like how things work even just on like the technical level, like always playing around with computers and, and building computers and stuff like that. Um, so when, when the bio major thing didn’t really work and finding philosophy like, I don’t know, just like just like guitar, like, I just realised it was like a calling, you know, like, like, I like understanding things and just like thinking about things like very deeply. And that’s just how my natural personality is, um, in terms of like, how that related to like, what I do now, like, a lot of especially like, my, my natural day job is like digital marketing digital strategy, like, how do you take the systems and like, that involve people and like, like, see the world through those lenses and stuff like that. So like, that’s kind of how I like I approach my music that’s kind of just approach like, community as our approach like, my job just like, understanding things and understanding people and connecting with real values and ideals. And yeah, I just like resonated with that a lot as a philosophy major. And that kind of stuck with me today, how I approach things now.
Adam Levy: I mean, you totally play the part too. I mean, I’ve jumped into clubhouse sessions, your whole entire look from the sunglasses to the hair, it’s such a vibe within itself. And it’s a lot of the reason why I wanted to have you on this on the show because one I got I got exposure to you through cup clubhouse Initially, I remember, you’re you help a lot of people on there, you tend to jump in a lot of rooms and with that comes with notifications to your followers, and then they jump in and builds an audience and whatnot. So you’re very big proponent on building communities and helping others build their communities. And I think one really cool way that you do that is obviously through music. And partly why have you here today to talk about boo coin, right? And just a disclaimer, no ways to shill boo coin or to buy bitcoin? It’s more to tell the story behind that. And I’m actually really curious, because you have, were you ever tampering with crypto trading Bitcoin or anything like that? Or did you just kind of fall into the lap of social tokens somehow.
Bomani X: I’ve been, like, I’ve known about the crypto space for a while, you know, whether it’s like trading and dabbling with dad, or like, you know, these different platforms, and apps that were that were coming up very early days. And even just like, knowing what NF T’s was, like, for a really long time, but, um, so I, I’ve known about that, where I mean, like I said, like, I’ve always been someone who’s tech aligned, and like, how do you how does technology or these like, emerging trends like push for a greater sense of creativity and connection. So I’ve always had that like, as my ethos in pretty much what I do. I’m not particularly until like, clubhouse and like, you know, getting more like, comfortable using my voice comfortable. Like, I’m applying a lot of these skill sets for myself and my own brand. And like, actually just, you know, being authentically me, where I then I started to realise all these cool ideas and all these things that like, I’ve always valued like, now I can start like applying for myself, and, and leveraging opportunity that I’ve been gifted to just do things in a way that I’ve always liked doing, and like comfortably doing it. So like, even when I was approached from like, the Rally Team, and like setting up a coin. I was like, yeah, like, why not? Like, why not experiment?
Adam Levy: I got it.
Bomani X: Like, does that mean more money in my pocket? I mean, maybe it does, maybe does it. So yeah, so like, even just the concept of like, setting up social token and boo, boo coin. At time, it just felt like a no brainer. Like, why not try it out? You know, what can come from it?
Adam Levy: Yeah. So you touched up on a really a point that I actually wanted to ask you, so let’s just dive that this dive into that. So the big macro trends, okay, that you kind of see social tokens playing a role in what have you seen that like, makes it a perfect opportunity for creators to launch their own tokens one take themselves public, quote, unquote, in build token based communities, what are those big macro trends that you that you saw come into play?
Bomani X: a few So, one, you know, like, one of the biggest lessons on a creative level and personal level that I’ve, that I’ve got from clubhouse was that like, you know, one because of the pandemic and like, you know, like, connection and collaboration, that’s, you know, everybody had to view that on a different lens. I mean, that’s, that’s obvious, and we’ve already gone through that. Um, but what about clubhouse what I’ve learned is that a lot of people’s voices are different in that type in the particularly like a social audio environment where like, it’s not like the typical, like, content mass that you put up on like, clubhouse and, and I mean, I’m sorry, put up on like Instagram, Twitter, tik tok, and I’m one of the Mac macro trends, I realised that like, digital identity is like becoming more and more of a theme as like, your identity and content, like, become go to more of like, authentic, genuine place. Um, and you know, especially with like, this sense of, like, truly digital ownership like, like curating, like digital land, like what that looks like, or just like what I was seeing happening and like the avatar space, I’m like, there’s this whole like, push towards like really owning your digital identity. Whether you avatars what to do wearables whether to do like audio. Um, and so when you’re and so with that trend, I realise like, you know, with owning your, your land or identity, like where it is, like, your economics that that come in, and then what I was seeing happening and like the entity space, not just as like a transfer of value for like, sales and stuff like that, but like people are using NF T’s is like a identifier badge. Like holders of these tokens mean that like you are identified as a part of this community, or you can be identified to get access to this experience. And as I was initially introduced to, like, rally, and then like seeing some of the stuff I saw, like, some big role communities like whale and friends with benefits. Um, I started seeing social tokens as like that bridge point where like, you have like, you have your content funnel, which is like, your social media platform, and you know, you have your identity, which is like what’s happening like in the metaverse, and wearables and avatars, and then you have like, NF T’s, which is like, the sale of that content value, but then like, it’s all like funnelled through, like social tokens, which both can be used as, like, you know, whether it’s like tipping or monetization, or like how people can support creators and crowdfund and crowd encourage things. But also, like, you holding this coin represents, like you’re part of x. And like how you build that out? Could be like, really powerful when you connect all those different dots together.
Adam Levy: Yeah, for sure. And just to dive deeper on that, so how do you more or less distinguish an NFt from a social token? Because a lot of people that are newcomers, for example, and maybe they haven’t even heard about social tokens just yet, and how that’s going to impact the creators and influencers of the world and musicians, whatever. How do you distinguish that because you can fractionalize ownership of an NFT? Right? So why would someone want to buy a token versus let’s say, like a membership badge that’s represented as an NFt?
Bomani X: I think, one, you know, in and like you said, very, like, some people can blurred the lines, like what that means right now. I think, like on a technical level, and like a functional level, like NFTs are more so used as like a higher value exchange, or at least how are you being used right now, where it’s like, here’s a particular artwork or a particular piece that I’m like, you know, that’s supposed to be aligned to like my super fans or collectors or like different things that, you know, people in my community get access to, I think social tokens are like, like, I think because I like smaller, not smaller than that, but like they’re perceived as like, currency in a way where like, it’s not just identify bad like, you could just tip somebody by buying their coffee. Or like even holders of your coin can use that as a currency for other things in your community. I think because it blurs both lines that like, I would rather like have social tokens be like the form of currency and identifiers. And like entities be like the assets that gives the coin more value.
Adam Levy: Yeah, it’s interesting, because there’s a lot of more experimentation to do to kind of really distinguish them, from apples to oranges kind of kind of thing, right. And I think that’s part of being an early adopter is creating those paths of experimentation, and leveraging the social tokens as one form of, of ownership of commerce of community and leveraging NFT’s as another form of ownership, commerce and community, right? And all that those bring together. But when you when you first kind of when you got approached by the Rally Team, and they told you, you can take in create a token of yourself, or you like, confused in the beginning, you’re like, what is that? What does that mean exactly? Like, were you sceptical at all? Did you? Did you think like, one of the legal implications, like what was going through your head?
Bomani X: Yeah, I wasn’t particularly sceptical on like, figuring out, like, on a technical level, what it meant, or like, how it could work. More so sceptical, and like, yeah, like, there were some, like, legal implications that I was, like, worried about where it’s like, you know, there’s, there’s an aspect of like, the coin represents value in you not represents like the value of like, like, it can going up and down, like, you know, like, on a financial level. So like, figuring out like, what’s the best like, phrasing and education that needs to happen? Or even just like things like, I have to, like, naturally, say or not say to protect myself? Like, yeah, Bitcoin is going up? Or, you know, yeah, yeah, you can’t say shit like that. And, like, where and, but I think the cool part of it, where it really forces you to really connect with what the value you determine is for your community, where they’re like this coin can be redeemed for this experience are these coin can be used for this, as opposed to like this arbitrary coin. Because then that’s, I think that’s what like, differentiates it from just like a crowdfunding campaign, where like, people could just pay you to fund the stuff you’re doing as opposed of like, I’m buying into something that can be redeemed for the things your Creator chooses to put out. And as the community accepts those different things that they can use their coin for. It like creates, I just say more Exchange. I don’t know what it is.
Adam Levy: I hear you. And I think like, I see you trying to create more utility behind it, too. I know you tweeted out the discord channel for boo holders. What other kind of activities are you creating and experiences? Are you creating around that? And as a follow up question, how do you really approach that when you’re creating these initiatives that revolve around a token?
Bomani X: Yeah, one, you know, the, the discord thing was part of the plan. Not necessarily because I like needed a Discord. But I think the discord in the coin was solving a pain point of like, where how my creativity was showing on clubhouse where, like, you know, it’s very, like, real time, you know, like, information only happens in rooms. So like, just having a platform. I’m just having a platform where, like, information can be shared and spread. And stored. But, but it could also be gated, um, I think that was like, one of the things I was trying to figure out was like, how do you really Kate create, like a gated community with social coins? Because like, yeah, you can have like gated content on like, Patreon or only fans or whatever the platform, you know, but like, the one thing that I was like, had to figure out was like, Okay, now that I have this coin out, I have people that are buying a coin, like how do I best identify who those peoples are. So like solving that first was like the discord and having and having a gated and there’s some tools that’s being built out to have gated clubhouse rooms for coin holders as well. But that was like the first thing.
Adam Levy: Is that already in the works? How does that work? They’re integrating with clubhouse and integrating the Social tokens or how does that work?
Bomani X: It’s more of a like a and I haven’t fully tested it out but I’ve seen so many creators do this more so like, like a bridge where like, this private room gets made. And only holders of the coin get.
Adam Levy: The link is dropped in the chat. Exactly. Okay. Got you. Cuz so there’s no there’s no formal integration, right? And I think that’s where that that’s where like the winner is right? Where all these platforms start integrating tools that allow creators to utilise their currencies in a way to create gated experiences, right? if Snapchat were to create a feature where you could link your coin and only certain people so you don’t have to worry about people then going you are doing subscriptions to get access to your private snap, you can just say an approach it like collab Lana’s doing it right. And in connecting your Meta mask and seeing all if you have the threshold, you can see my snaps, or if you have the threshold, you can join my clubhouse room automatically. And I think I hope that’s where these platforms are going to be transitioning to, as more and more creators kind of create these tokens. And they realise that Wait a minute, I just created an asset, right? That’s kind of viewed as a loyalty membership type of token. And I’m really bounded to the platforms that really allow me to experiment with this token discord, being one of them, and all the tools and open source projects that you can build on top of that, right. I’d be interested to see how that kind of rolls out, I wonder how long it’s going to take till you see more of these, like mainstream platforms hop on board, like Pay Pal is for example, with Bitcoin and Venmo now with buying and selling crypto, so it’d be interesting,
Bomani X: I think the one thing that I’ve realised even more and more just being I will identify greater as a creator is like, you know, these type of integrations always come last. And like, sometimes, like, it really takes some of the innovation and experimenting that people are doing to really flesh out the use cases first, so that these platforms like okay, that that that model does work. I mean, even with just like the example of like monetization on clubhouse, like, you know, like there’s been, there’s been plenty of people, even on the platform didn’t have direct monetization, but there’s been plenty of people that have been making money on apps, it’s just, you know, with experimenting with cash app or experimenting with creating their own funnel.
Adam Levy: Right now, it’s a very manual process, there’s no way to streamline it. And I think that’s like, that’s the Golden Apple right there.
Bomani X: But I do think that it’s a tricky balance, because like, I think, I think and Nish, like that, like quick integrations can cause like, somewhat of a flooding where like, like, proper use cases don’t get developed. Because it’s so easy, you know, like, and, and, and not to not necessarily bringing this up. But like, that’s kind of my opinions of like big clout, in a sense where it is, you know, an ideal world connecting social to currency, you know, seems like what the future is, but like, that quick integration very early on is showing like some of the natural issues that happens when people use social currency or shells or tokens within their community hasn’t really been solved yet. And then when you flood it with like, a quick integration early on, like you see some of the pros and cons of that. So I think there’s a balance in the economy of just like, how platforms connect with what creators are innovating with.
Adam Levy: Yeah, sure. I think it’s, it’s funny, you bring up big clock, because I wanted to bring that up with you later. But that was an amazing social experiment. And amazing Black Mirror type of social experiment that many, many I’ve been told that question its execution and how it kind of went to launch. But regardless, the idea the concept is more or less kind of like what these other social tokens are kind of leaning on, like the ones that are being launched on rally or roll, right, it really is like a public stock market, quote, unquote, for people and brands that extend beyond the New York Stock Exchange and in Wall Street, etc. And you’re right, I think they did go more than of the extreme route, I think, was actually pretty smart because it showed people what was what was possible and what the vision is, as a whole. And I think it sparked the conversations that were needed to have around what social tokens are and couldn’t become down the line. So I applaud their founders for making that leap. And, honestly, best of luck to them, but I think there’s a market for both right. I think there’s a market for those that don’t necessarily want to treat it with such aggressive bonding curves like Bitcoin did, and the supply and the Demand pressure that kind of are attached to the price appreciation, right? Whereas rallies is pegged more to the underlying token itself, as well as the supply and demand pressure that the creator creates for their token on the memberships. And it’s crazy me, I talk to people about social tokens, and I tell them, think of them as a way where when you swipe your credit card, you gain points that you can exchange for discounted hotels for airline miles. Imagine you can do that now referencing someone’s brand and their influence that they built. And I think it’s a complete game changer. So more in that utility. Do you imagine a world where your community 2, 3, 4 maybe in the next year, depending on how fast the social tokens actually pick up and people start referencing early adopters as examples, and their prices appreciate if they appreciate it? Okay. Do you imagine yourself doing like, for example, and I’m like, going far-fetched right now. Okay. Let’s say you have, I don’t know, 10,000, 20,000 people holding your token, the price is in the triple digits, right? Assuming you can get to that point. Do you see yourself doing collabs with more mainstream brands, like Gibson, for example, right? Or I don’t know, if there are some guitar brands out there. And the ones that you’re holding right now, right? Like, you know what I mean, like doing a collab of commerce, where you tell them that, oh, wait a minute, I have a tonne of people holding my tokens, these are actual tokens that you can swap for any other currency in the market. Why not do exclusive drops and collapse? Do you see yourself doing that with these companies? Or how are you kind of approaching this down the line?
Bomani X: Yeah, no, I definitely envision that I mean like, even just on like, a small scale of like, you know, like with some of these entities, plans that I have, or certain things I plan where like you said like, it becomes not necessarily a bonus but like a feature of like the coin and the coin community and like, and you know, how connecting with, you know, major brands of like, hey, there’s a huge pool of, of money and liquidity and my personal community, as opposed and, and, and that being able to be like fact checked in, you know, on track, which I think is insane, insane. Yeah, different, which is a different conversation that happens with like, from the brand creator level where they expect, you know, their fan base to show your pride towards a product, but they don’t really know, like, what the full like value is, and social coins can kind of be like, that representation, like, Oh, no, like, I have X amount of holders, you know, these holders have X amount of things that they can use, because, you know, that’s what it’s for. And here’s an experience that we can collaborate our partner with. That, you know, Alliance, and I think direct convergence will, will be can be, it’ll be done easier in that regard. As opposed of like, you know, you’re just promoting to your fan base that may or may not decide to use their real dollars on something, you know.
Adam Levy: Yeah. Yeah. So, what have been some of like, the major hurdles, if any, for getting more of your fan base more of your audience in tune with boo?
Bomani X: Um, I think some of the natural hurdles are some of the hurdles that like just exist in crypto, there’s still like an education factor, like, and what is it? You know, like, what can I use it for, like, you know, there’s still like a huge financial implication that comes with crypto currency in general, where, like, people buy into tokens for the expectations that it’s an investment to, you know, make money for so like, some of those same pretences exists in the social token space, whereas, like, buying boots, I guess, Tina, um, so we can go up in value. Um, so I think I think some of the hurdles is just like education. Like not fully even identifying like, what the value that I want to like put out yet so right now it’s, it’s I feel like a lot of the social token community it’s perceived as just like crowdfunding as opposed to like a fully fleshed out crater economy yet. Um, and, and at least particularly with rally right now, just a proper, like, funnel to identify who the community is still, like, you know, like, there’s still a lot of these manual hacks and innovations that I got to make it work, but that’s some of this stuff so far. Yeah, I
Adam Levy: I think its part of the process. We’re getting to crypto like you said, in general, understanding what cryptocurrencies are, what they mean how they work, why there’s something online that you created out of thin air all of a sudden have $1 value to it. I think and like, at some point, people are going to cross that hurdle, right. And I think influencers actually going to be a major part with educating these, these mainstream adopters like NF T’s were for bringing in this next wave of culture art, music, dance, photography, etc, into the digital world of web three. And indeed, it’d be interesting to see how it pans out. Kind of down the line what I’ve been the reaction so far, have you gotten mixed feelings? Behind launching? Boo, one of your audience? Have they criticised you have they applauded you? What has been the consensus?
Bomani X: Um, I haven’t got any, any major criticisms, and mostly, like, applauding whether or not people understand it fully, mostly applauding like a, you know, Bomani’s innovating or testing out? Yeah. And, and, and proving that like, you know, these types of risks, you know, are working. You know, and, and being one of the first clubhouse creators to make the coin and you know, and it still, you know, being a good thing that I’m glad I did, yeah, yeah. I think some of the feedback is mostly, or at least the number one question that I get is like, Okay, what am I using this for, again? And whether or not like I portrayed as, like, hey, you know, it’s just like, a form as like tipping or like monetization, or just expressing in the ways that people are used to right now. Until like, oh, yeah, like, come into discord and play poker with a coin, you know, and use that as a currency or like, so, you know, some of these experiences that I do, like, I’m starting to make them a little bit more private. And, yeah, you know, these, what the coins can get access to. Um, so mostly just like, Can confused is the biggest and common critique about it, but I haven’t seen any real like hate about the social health insurance yet.
Adam Levy: I don’t think people understand it well enough to even form a full opinion and to see the drawbacks in the positives, the pros and the cons. But so you being super, super active on clubhouse, being one of the leading voices for the black community and bringing in more culture more sold onto the platform, right, and then launching this token, early April. There’s a lot of things that happened during the pandemic for you, I feel like that probably would have never kind of imagined how have you used boo? In the context of clubhouse? Are you rewarding listeners for being in the room? Have you experimented with that? Are you thinking about that?
Bomani X: I one way, you know, like, I think the one of the benefits of social tokens because like never before, where, like, that form of like, fan to creator engagement, especially when, like, when a fan pays for something like that value exchange, it’s like kind of a one off thing. You know, like, you know, with social tokens, like you buy a coin whether or not you redeem it now or later like there’s always that like paired relationship. So, you know, one thing I’ve been doing is like, I probably have given like, a lot a lot of money to people probably like, probably like, with not as much strictness as I probably should, because like I still view it as like magic internet money, but like, I’d probably give it like at least like hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Adam Levy: Oh, hundreds of 1000s or hundreds to 2000s
Bomani X: Hundreds of two thousands.
Adam Levy: I was like damn bro you’re printing money gee.
Bomani X: Jess so like as like a reward like hey, like you’ve been with me on this clubhouse journey for a while like I have this coin I don’t really know what I’m doing with it fully yet but like, let me give this to you as like because eventually like I’m going to create a system where they’re giving the coin back or like using the coin to get something so like it’s kind of like I think social tokens can be used as like a collateral to be honest also like if I gave you like $100 in Bitcoin and there’s nothing you can spend it on right now but like I’m kind of you’re kind of like putting something in collateral like hey, come back to this community when you’re able to use the coin and whether you cash it out. I’m not obviously that’s on you and even if you did, I wouldn’t really matter but like I the one thing I also like about rally is that like the reward system is really well for holders of the coin. So I’m getting paid back with rally token. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, so the percentage of coins you hold, you get access to that reward pool that goes out every week. Um, so that’s kind of how I’ve been using it right now and clubhouse is like, Hey, I got boot coin like if you want some just hit me up, I’ll send you some. You know, now I got the discord. And I’m playing a lot of games on clubhouse that use the coin as like, the reward or the tool.
Adam Levy: That’s super cool. What goes down in the discord? Or what have you been doing so far? Or is that exclusive for boo holders? Because you got to do so? I guess a sneak peek to incentivize more people to join the community.
Bomani X: Yeah, so there’s it is gated there is like one or two general channels. Which you could see a lot of just random chats and activities that go on the gate is like really low. It’s like two, two coins right now and I haven’t set up like you came in and like just wanted some, you know, just send it to you in a discord channels right now. Nice. Um, yeah, right now, it’s just like, being used as like, a lot of like, people in clubhouse like finally being able to like group chat and group texts of people. So like, creating that value for my community, which is like a pain point for a lot of people in clubs anyway, where like, we only get to talk to people when we’re in the room or on stage. So like, discord right now has kind of been a place where people just building even greater friendships. And that’s kind of like the value added I’m having for it right now. Like a lot of people like my rooms and my vibes and the people I connect with. So like, come to the discord to like, you know?
Adam Levy: Yeah, I think that’s the beauty behind this. Because there’s so many different social platforms from YouTube to your subscribers, Instagram, you have your followers and on Twitter, you have your follower’s clubhouse, you have your followers, Facebook, you have different groups that might represent your songs, and your musics and everything that you spit out. But there’s no real coherent, coherent way to bring everyone together, and through a funnel of direct communication. And do so where you actually you can do it from the point of view of incentivizing these, the most hard-core fans to actually have a financial stake in the in the future of what you’re trying to build in you, as a performer, the credibility that you’ve built for yourself, there’s no real way to do that. Other than with social tokens, really, people are just engaging with you with likes, follow subscribes, views, very surface level type of interactions. And I think you’re thinking about this right? Because you’re actually saying, Wait a minute, I have a great following on clubhouse I have a great following on Instagram on Twitter, I’m starting to produce content, I’m doing more live shows and posting them on YouTube. People are going to grow hopefully going to grow fan of me, I got to kind of reward them and show them how they can engage with me beyond these platforms. And I think you’re on the money with that. I really think you’re on the money with that.
Bomani X: And I think like I think the one thing that the social tokens do like it allows you to like financially bet on yourself more and what I mean by that like you know, like I’ve gotten plenty of like cash apps and yeah, but like imagine like all of that was like boot coin very early on like with doing the same amount of work of building your community with building out you know, this audience in this in this funnel like a lot of money would have been worth way more than that it was then then it is.
Adam Levy: I think it just get like don’t get me just take just get Bitcoin Yeah.
Bomani X: Even on the fan level, like the value of what they gave to you is worth more with the coin.
Adam Levy: Yeah, think about that. Like don’t just give me your money go you can give me your money but do it in the form of a currency because then I’ll be able to give you even more right like it’s such a like psychological flip instead of just [unintelligible] someone just buy my currency because I have so many new cool things you can unlock just by having that so
Bomani X: Yeah, interesting. And that money you gave out maybe worth less because now you got rewards or things like now you have more money to yeah for yourself and you still got the same value for in terms of like what you initially wanted to get to me or go to a creator so like I think I mean now granted like you said, there’s that level of fluctuation where obviously like coins go up, not everything always goes up. So it’s more of a long game. And I think you have to also be mindful of that, that you know, when things go down, you know, still grind part of it and part of its value.
Adam Levy: How do you how do you disassociate your self-worth, from your currency worth? I feel like it’s A big problem because right now with how society works are a lot of these, I’m not going to put everyone in a mode, okay? But the more followers you have, the more influential you are right? The more awareness you’re able to create and power quote, unquote, and people associate you to your fame. Stuff. One, one, what you’ve done, okay, but two, how many followers you got? Right? Amongst other things, okay. But social media followers are like a big player in that. And it’s, it’s fucked with a lot of people. It’s like, on one hand, people are very happy on social media, and producing content, people are associating them based off of their numbers and their fame and what they’re portraying online, do you think it’s ever going to ever going to shift that people are going to be like, Nah, this person’s worth, like, $20, this other person’s worth $100 they’re not worth the same kind of thing. This person has more followers in this person, he’s more influence, you know, what I mean? Like, are people going to, like start entering into this black mirror type of type of situation?
Bomani X: I do think so a bit. Well, I don’t think it will be that extreme. But I do think like, you know, going back to like, the, like, big clout, you know, experimentation, like, that kind of opened the veil of like, that is actually a very, you know, strong possibility of like, even creators start shifting, like, what’s valuable to them, where it’s not followers, but it’s like, you know, my coin value in, and then, you know, because there’s a natural gamification that occurs in crypto, like people will, you know, exploit that or manipulate that or just like, recognise that, like, Oh, yeah, this creator is worth this much. So maybe that’s means he’s worth more than an investment. But, granted, that already happens in social media, where, you know, there’s already a higher level of perception of like people that are verified or with high follow ships, that they provide more value, because now, I think we, as a community already recognise that, that that’s not always the case, like, perception is not always true. And you have to really be ingrained in that community that really find out what that value is for you. But the fact that is paired with money, like, it makes it a little bit more tricky. So I think that’s something that I’m even like, being mindful of that, like, let me look out for potential red flags. And like, you know, people that are holding my coin, are they really in it for like, the coin value going up? So they can like, you know, sell? Are they in it for, like, what it’s going to be used for? And yeah, I think you have to still look at, like some of the negative implications that are happening in some of these emerging tech trends. Because just on a philosophical level, like, it’s always going to be deeper on a day to what it looks like.
Adam Levy: You know, it’s crazy, because I feel like the majority of token holders might look at it from the point of view of an investor and speculating on the person and the brand as a form of investment, right? Rather than you engaging with your audience of people that believe in you love, your content, your music, all that you produce, and engage with you on a more intimate experiential level. Right? And I’d even argue, to some extent, and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, is, I think, like 90% of the token holders might be more on the investment side. To some extent, I think you can’t control that, right? Because there’s no real way like, if you send people their tokens, how do you actually force them to come back and engage in your experiences, right? If anything, it’ll just be sitting in their metamask or wherever it’s sitting there web three wallet. And it’ll be appreciating depreciating in value as the rest of the market does to an extent. But how do you actually create an environment where you motivate your audience to partake more in the intimate experiences that you’re creating for them as stakeholders as token holders, rather, as speculators? How do you how do you kind of think about that?
Bomani X: Yeah, I think that’s something that a lot of people have and, you know, in this conversation is what I feel like is equally happening in like, NFT space where there’s a lot of like conflating between, like is this a collectible as a part of like me, just enjoying this experience that this creator gave me or is this an investment and I’m thinking about as a collector and like, I want to flip it in the future or something like that. And, and, you know, I, I think you know, same with social toxins like there’s a lot of people that just know the game and are buying it as an or as an investment of you, which I still think that is important aspect of it because like I think as a creator and what the social tokens grant is like, a form of like crowdfunding or crowd investment. Um, and you know, that’s needed in you know, are creators where they can feel like they can raise capital to do the stuff that they want to do. Um, so I think there’s a level of like investing in a person, which is okay. But investing for the sake of like, market manipulation like that can get, you know, that could be dangerous. And yeah, I think for me what I’ve been doing is everyone who are trying to do like everyone who has had do have my coin, like, if there isn’t already a one to one relationship or connection that I have, like, how can I like facilitate that? Where like, at the end of the day, like I know, everybody, or at least they’re in a system where I can get to know everybody on a on a level that will have them value me more so than just the coin itself?
Adam Levy: Yeah, if only there was a way to send direct notifications for people who are holding your tokens and send the messages in, like, funnel them in a way where Yeah, you can communicate with them if they enter the discord. But if they’re just token holders, and they’re not in the discord, either, because one they might not know there is a discord or two. They either received it from someone not knowing what they really received, right, if there was a way to really communicate with them.
Bomani X: So someone gay, and I do agree with this, someone, someone did give me a good counterpoint where like, some of the inherent benefits of crypto is like that level of anonymity. Sure, where like, even with, you know, some of these like fractionalized entities, like, there’s some, sometimes it’s just like a wallet address, like you don’t really even know who bought your stuff. And being able to like, do this little second layer of community building is kind of hard when you don’t really know so but I do think that’s important to maintain because it’s crypto, but it’s a balance, I think, by giving people this space to support from a distance. Yeah. But also giving a space for people to opt in to the community. That you’re building.
Adam Levy: Yeah, yeah, it’s interesting, how did you kind of determine the price in which the token went out? I feel like it’s a lot of question. It’s a common question people have, when they look at these cryptocurrencies, like, where the hell does the value come from.
Bomani X: So to be honest, I’m with rally. Because it’s because one, you know, they, they give you a certain amount of coins as, as you’re starting off, and because those coins are, are backed by the rally token, there wasn’t necessarily a level like liquidity that I had to put into, like, create a certain value. So to be honest, when I when I, the first day, you know, my coin launch, you know, it already had like, a value, you know, it was like 40 cents, something like that. I think with like, roll, like, because, you know, like, there’s like, X amount of coins, and you need to add liquidity to it to, like, give it that type of value. Like it’s different on the rally community. Um, and what seems like a less complicated process for me to figure out. So I think that’s why I appreciated like, that aspect of rally where like, the value was kind of like, set and then like, as more coins get created and existence like that increases the value as like rally token goes up, that also plays into the increase Valley, you know, supply and demand. So like they have their own little algorithm that works.
Adam Levy: Yeah, well, a lot of these tokens end up creating pools on uniswap, or these decentralised exchanges, majority of the time, or what I’ve seen they’re really pegged to aetherium is value, right? So when aetherium goes down, if you’re creating like if we’re talking in terms of whale right now, right there, there’s a whale eath pool, right? And the tokens peg essentially to it’s for its price, right? So when eath goes down, similar to rallies, like economics, right, except rally has a rally coin. Aetherium is aetherium. And I think one thing when creators are kind of going through this process, they’ll come across that path, where should I go and take a left and go more towards the raw creation, like whale did and create an actual token that lives on aetherium? Or do I take the right path and kind of rely on a platform that feels it’s not centralised, but it feels like that the performance of the token is dependent on the success of rally and the platform rally to an extent right and it’s kind of like building a business on top of another business. Like if you’re like you’re a digital strategist, like leveraging eecom right and in creating an e commerce brand, leveraging Facebook, but Facebook goes down for example, you’re fucked to an extent right? So like, how have you kind of approached that? How did you decide to go I mean, I know they kind of approached you you’re like, probably just engage in the conversation and say, let’s just do it? Right. Yeah. But I guess like down the line from what you’ve learned, by going through this process? How would you kind of approach creators and tell them? This is like my rule of thumb now, whether you should be going like the whale route and doing like an eighth type of pool or the rally route and going for the, towards rally coin?
Bomani X: Um, yeah, that’s a good question. Um, because I mean, originally, like, you know, when rally approached me, like, I think I was, like, aware, a bit of like, whale and that web, but also then like, fully know, like, that there were two different platforms of how it works. Um, I think for me, I would personally repeat that process of going with Braley and like, kind of just having like, a, cause rallies kind of like main company protocol is like, you know, to create these creator coin economies for different creators. So like, that’s what their coin is backed by, and that’s the work that they’re doing. So kind of also somewhat believing in that, you know, company, and that product gives me a little bit more like self-assurance to like, test out what I’m doing. With that little bit of a safety net, I think with like, by creating your coin, and then like, deciding, like, he said, like, if you want to add liquidity, and you know, and, and, and, you know, put it on a uni swap or something like that. I think a lot of people have that knowledge and understanding of that. But if you don’t, I think it would be a bit more of a benefit to go more centralised, just so you can learn more like if you’re if you’re not familiar with the space, it just may seem super complicated with like, figuring out all the complicated nuances [Inaudible].
Adam Levy: Yeah. But then I guess one thing just add to that is craters might feel like, wait a minute, I only got one shot, I can only take myself quote unquote, public once is that necessarily true? Like you won’t create another boo coin, per se, you might create, like, a coin that might be in relation to a guitar brand that you’re trying to create? I don’t know, I’m thinking out loud here. Right. But you won’t necessarily create a boo coin, if it doesn’t really work out on rally, you won’t? Would you go and start a new one? Is that what you’re kind of saying?
Bomani X: I mean, I think rally is. And I don’t speak fully for that roadmap, but I think they’re developing an aspect where, you know, creators can decide to take it off that like, rally, like, main net, and like, and, you know, add your own liquidity and stuff to it. So you, you know, have a little bit way more control in your own, you know, of your own social token. And that regards, um, you know, and then maybe just add to, you know, be able to add to other platforms and stuff. Sure. I’m sure that’s the route that they’re also going have had decided that as the route I’m going to take, when, you know, when presented with that, I don’t know yet. I think there’s still a level of like that side, I need to get educated more on a bit. And build out a stronger infrastructure for that. But yeah, no, it’s all a process. Yeah, for sure. For sure. If you think if you have that level of understanding about the infrastructure that would require to be successful, or even just test it out. I mean, I think both options work, you know, both options have resources to learn from.
Adam Levy: Yeah, I want to dive deep into, like, your vision for yourself and the community you’re trying to build, specifically, because I think its perfect time, and we scheduled this interview, and this morning, you tweeted something actually, very, very deep, I’m going to read it out loud and just share with the audience. So since my grandma passed, I was waiting for the day, she would show up in my dreams she did last night, I needed that confirmation for what I’ve planned in the next three months. What do you got planned in the next three months? What are we what can we expect from you? And how does that kind of relate to, to boot if it does relate in any way?
Bomani X: it relates in the sense that like, you know, I said early, like, you know, like, I lived in California, and the, the actual main reason why I came back to DC was to, you know, help take care of my grandma. Um, and, and in that own journey, of being here with her and on a personal level growth and, and then, you know, like, finding clubhouse and, you know, the grove wood all that on a, on an emotional personal level and being here, you know, and taking care of her throughout that whole time. Um, you know, my grandma passed away, like, a week or so ago. And, you know, in that moment, you know, just kind of gave me some sort of like, comfortable ability, in a sense that, like, I was able to do all of this stuff, while like land Locked in playing like a nurturing role. Um, you know, breaking new heights on a personal level that I’ve, like, never really imagined at this time period. And, you know, being an app icon, building a community, like being more comfortable in my creative pursuits, and innovating, experimenting, and like, kind of having her be here, through all of that. And, you know, now that, you know, she’s, she’s not here anymore, like, like, What is that like, next level of like, true, true freedom of expression looks like. And with, you know, you know, the pandemic and like stuff opening back up, like, there’s a lot of like, plans and experimentation that now involve the real world that now I would feel like, for the first time in a while, like, I have access to, you know, whether that’s all these things I’m testing out, and like, taking it to the next level now, with just that confirmation that I really can. And yeah, some of the things I have planned in the next three months, like I’m dropping this, like, really big NFT project, kind of also telling my years my story about clubhouse, like, because I would have been on a platform for a year in July. So like, I’m doing a drop, really telling that whole thing in a cool way. And there’s some like physical experiments that I want to do integrating like my coin in my community and creating this sort of like physical metaverse bridge. I got some like, really cool plans. On clubhouse. So yeah, like, I feel like, you know, when I when I tweeted that he kind of gave me like that just little added confirmation that like, you know, now’s the time. I felt like I was limited before, but like, now I don’t feel like that now. And like, I’m ready and excited for what’s to come.
Adam Levy: Yeah, she sounded like an amazing person. And thank you for sharing that. That’s, it’s very deep. It’s not easy to talk about. So thanks for sharing that. And I’m excited for your launch. I think it’s a big milestone for you. And like I said in the beginning, I don’t think nobody has nobody would have imagined the roller coaster that you could have been on over the last year. And who could have imagined what happened? What could have had happened, I guess, because of COVID. And all that all that that bring in. So sending all the positive energy and all the positive vibes your way, I hope, hope it goes well. It’d be interesting to see how that kind of plays in if you require the NFT purchasers to hold booth coins as a way to incentivize them. I’d be curious to see how that rolls out. I’m going to be keeping an eye out. And just to transition because the music industry has finally woken up to crypto, right. One of one of I guess, the main proponents being Blau, right. I know. Also, Jesse Walden had a start-up back in 2017, a variant fund he talks about the ownership economy. And that project got acquired by Spotify. So Spotify has been in the loop with blockchain tech for some time, I’m sure Apple Music. But I don’t think they really woken up to social tokens yet they might have heard about it’s probably conversations are happening in their meeting rooms. I would I would assume but none other artists per se I have seen personally, maybe I missed something. But I haven’t seen anyone launch their own token from the major publisher site. How do you how do you imagine these social tokens kind of revolutionising as people like to say, the music industry? Because you’re, I’m assuming you’re an independent artist, right? Yeah. Okay, you’re not signed to anyone. And I feel like those who are assigned to the Universal Music groups of the world, the Sony’s of the world, they’ll want a big cut of these creator coins. You know, it would only make sense, but I feel like the role of what crypto and web three brings is kind of reversing that ownership cycle. If anything, if you were to get picked up by publisher, you’d probably tell the publisher you guys have to buy bitcoins and stake your wealth. Invest in me like how do you imagine I’m like, I’m thinking out loud here. Right? How do you how do you imagine these social tokens kind of impacting the music industry as a whole?
Bomani X: I think there’s one aspect where like, tokens, you know, social tokens or even just the competition has happened in NFT’s and ownerships, like there’s a level of like, owning the, the value exchange or value, you know, flow between like an artist and their fan base and with like, so tokens like instead of, instead of, Putting out an album and having to go through like the chain of commands of like streams and, and getting pay-outs from these other industry like you can literally just kind of control that on your own, which I think, you know, can be appealing to, to the to labels where, you know, you can, you know, flow artists career or stuff like that through the token itself. And I think also on the flip side like there is like a natural level of like, governance that exists with like these token communities where like if a large stake of the token is owned by the label, like, that kind of also can dictate, like, where the community goes and stuff like that, because like, the value is in control of not just a creator, it’s control of, you know, what the Creator is signed to. Or for large whale, Porsche at Port bought a portion of my coin, like, technically, where I want the value to go is not kind of no longer in my hands. Um, so I can see I can see, like, label deals being formatted that way by like, like, this coin Treasury is like, or this coin value is own, by either the creator or the label, or the fans. And like how that plays into like, where has played into, like, music creation, or like music exchange, or just like, who owns what. And I think social tokens can kind of create that model, and I don’t have a full like, fleshed out thought process about.
Adam Levy: I think I think that’s again, that’s part of being an early adopter, you don’t know where this stuff is going. You’re taking it day at a time. And experimenting as more opportunities more ideas kind of come to mind. I think its part of the process. I it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out for the music industry. And what that means for artists like Imagine being able to buy a Taylor Swift coin before she was Taylor Swift or Justin Bieber coin before he was Justin Bieber, etc, right. And the music labels having a stake in that to some extent, while giving the artists that I guess that creativity to explore their own songs, their own music, their own performances, whatever, but still having that financial upside, buying those tokens. And imagine if people could buy the Justin Bieber token before Justin Bieber was Justin Bieber, like, that’d be that’d be crazy. That’d be crazy. It’d be a whole different world, like, creation of wealth, creation of value. And the value that I don’t know, I’m like, I’m so hype behind this stuff. You know, there’s so many opportunities here.
Bomani X: No, I agree. I think I think the dangerous part that whether or not like the labels are thinking about it, or like, the community is thinking about, like, like, cash grabs do exists. For sure. And, and, and sometimes, like when celebrities or like major people get into these types of conversations, or utilise these texts, like most of the times, I get viewed as cash grabs, where like, a main, like a popular celebrity may have pure intentions to like, truly utilise the tech in a way that’s like really innovative and standout and valuable. But like, does that mean that I’ve been with some of these NF t drops are like, they think they go well, or the secondary value of it, like completely drops or tanks. And, and I’ve seen some of that a little bit. And like some of the rally coins I get on board or where they it’s a lot more fluctuation for them as opposed like for me, where like the fluctuation of hasn’t really been that hasn’t been that crazy. Yeah, yeah. So, um, I think that’s something to think about. And the common trend about like, when big players get into the space, they never really look at, like, the smaller medium players as like,
Adam Levy: A threat.
Bomani X: Just like learn from. I got the space. But I think it’d be really cool to have more adoption when bigger players get in, because then that helps people like us, like, prove what we’ve been doing for a while.
Adam Levy: Yeah. I’m excited. One because I know to some degree makes a lot of sense for both markets from the investment side and from the audience side. And me being a musician, and all the drummers that I grew up adoring and loving and mimicking and learning from and the artists and going through all these lives. Performances, I wish. I just wish there was a way to engage with these people beyond. Like this Patreon, there’s only fans or stuff like that each for its own different category of what they specialise in. But I think this is finally the real way to invest, and do so in a way that extends beyond your thumb movements of liking and viewing, right. And if I believe in an artist, and I have my post notifications on, I’m listening to every single song that they push. And I believe in this person so much that I talk about them to everyone. Yeah, why not give those people an opportunity to help build that person, financially to an extent and do so in a way where they can unlock more intimate experiences with that person as well. So I think it’s interesting how this kind of like, roll out over the next coming years, I think we’re going to see a lot more mainstream artists and performers and creators launched their tokens at a rate that it’s going to kind of like, snowball the way NF T’s did. And, yeah, we’ll see. We’ll see what happens. I guess a final question for your two final questions is, I asked you this a little bit earlier, and we kind of touched upon it, but advice for new creators getting into this area and experimenting, what are some points you can show?
Bomani X: Advice, I think, you know, like, first, like, even though like, you know, it was crypto, and whether or not you’re familiar or not familiar, like, just kind of think about it in like terms of like, as you’re used to, like, like, if it’s just monetization, like, you know, people have a social tokens, it’s just a system where people can just pay use tipping, and you kind of just have something where, like, them tipping you this way, or buying your coin can just be exchanged for like, what your picture. Your services are, um, I think a common misperception a little bit is that when people like buy your coin, like that essentially means that they’re giving you that money. They’re not necessarily giving you money until like, they give you the coins that they bought.
Adam Levy: But just to clarify, they are appreciating, they’re contributing to the appreciation of value. It’s a network effect type of thing.
Bomani X: Yes.
Adam Levy: Right. Okay, cool.
Bomani X: Yes, that part is true. Um, so I think, like, education is important. Like, so whether you, you know, take your time to just get educated about what exactly you’re doing or want to do, and how you educate your community is how you build and sustain, like, a strong like, an economy. But yeah, I think just have fun with it. Like, like, at the end of the day, like, I think, Well, I think it is innovative to experiment. I also think its like, not that deep, you know, just so just, you know, just try it out. You know, get your own coin if, if, if people like it. I think I think people can have a lot of like really cool fun, just saying that they got their own crypto coins, they aren’t like they’re creating their own economy, they’re creating more control of the channels. Instead of just relying on like, a pay-out from cash app, or a pay-out from only fans or a payout from Patreon, when you can create how you want people to pay you how you want to, like, give them the value that they want, and create a community around it. I think. I think the token is inherently a community tool. And that’s something that is missed on like a lot of these platforms, like and that’s something that’s amiss with money in general. So it’s really cool to just experiment with.
Adam Levy: Yeah. And final question. Where can we find you or can we learn more about you should give us give us the plugs, shout yourself out.
Bomani X: Yeah, definitely my main like, source of like communication is definitely clubhouse right now. So definitely follow me on clubhouse like, check out the Discord. I need to find a place where the link is more easy. If you hit me up anywhere, you know you’ll get the discord link. If you want some Bitcoin, just DM me anywhere. Yeah, and coming poker nights you know poker night so fun.
Adam Levy: Oh, yeah. What is that? You never tell us about that. You spill the beans a little bit. Give us give us a rundown. Is that in the discord?
Bomani X: Yeah. So like one of the other things that I’ve been doing recently with just like the clubhouse Discord. Connection is like game nights in the house like how we can use clubhouse it’s just like the audio stream. I mean some of them would you know discord kind of is in general. So taking that same model to clubhouse and so we just like play poker in clubhouse rooms people listen and the prizes are you know in Bitcoin.
Adam Levy: wait a minute so are there are you actually like is there a visual side to it or it’s only audio I mean I’m one in the audience can listen through the audio but the players they have to see what they’re trading right?
Bomani X: Oh there’s like a, like a second screen app or second app where like.
Adam Levy: Got you. All right.
Bomani X: There’s also like, using apps where people can watch
Adam Levy: Got you.
Bomani X: I’m trying to build out like games that are where the in game currency is boo coin and developing that next. So we can actually play with the coin
Adam Levy: Distribution, distribution, distribution. Nice man.
Bomani X: Well, yeah, that’s pretty much it.
Adam Levy: Amazing dude. You’ve been awesome. Bomani X. Go check him out guys. Awesome human being awesome creator. Appreciate you man. Thank you for being on.
Bomani X: Appreciate you, man.