Using Social Tokens To Unlock Creator Merch, Music & More with JVCKJ of $PSTL

Mint S1E2 transcript: Jack Johnson aka JVCKJ of $PSTL coin chats music, merch, and using crypto to build gated experiences for his fans.

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Mint Season 1 episode 2 features Jack Johnson, whose artist name is JVCKJ. He’s widely known as one-half of the multi-platinum pop duo Jack & Jack. He’s a creative force who earned a billion-plus streams, achieved multi-platinum records, and countless sold-out tours. He’s also the founder of PSTL aka Pastel coin – a gateway to building his vision for his creator economy. 

In this episode, we talk about his journey as an early internet personality on the once-popular social media platform Vine, his new single Money Memories, his vision for his personal token, why he’s so big on crypto, how $PSTL coin is empowering his fans, and towards the end, we start having a live brainstorming session on how we can create further utility behind $PSTL token.

Adam Levy: Jack, welcome man. Welcome to the show. Thanks for being on.

JVCKJ: That’s good Adam. Thanks for having me brother. Really appreciate it.

Adam Levy: Of course, man. How you feeling?

JVCKJ: Feeling good, man. It’s a beautiful day all right now top of the week, you know ready to get the week going? Got a lot of stuff in the works. So you know it’s summer’s here. It feels fantastic.

Adam Levy: Dude, we got a lot to cover. I know you got a lot of things coming up. You have a fire new single out called money memories. You have a new clothing line that’s about to come out called pstl. And even more so which is kind of like why you’re here you launched your own social token on cryptocurrency with the abbreviation of pstl tickers, PSTL. And, like, you’re very, I guess earlier, this space, one of many, I guess one of a few creators, at least that have kind of experimenting with this new space, that has really been a lot more for like, defy like decentralised finance, more traditional investment. And now you’re one of the few people who’s actually taking it and making it more creative and building communities around it. And I’m excited to have you on. So let’s just dive into Okay, I want to start with the basics. Tell me a little bit how you kind of got your start as a popular personality online. And then how that kind of transitioned into the music scene.

JVCKJ: Yeah, so me and my buddy Jacqueline ski, I think it was probably around junior year, summer, going into senior year, the app mine was a massive, you know, sensation at the time, eve3ryone and their mom was on there, you know, just consuming these six and a half second looping clips. And me and G were just very consistent. We made a lot of, you know, comedic sketches, a lot of, you know, music covers, and really, every single day would be uploading in some sort of facet. And it was crazy, you know, it just sort of exploded over the course of the next couple years. And we’re still in Omaha, Nebraska, actually, at this time. And we linked up with some local producers who saw some of our covers on there, they really wanted to get us in the studio making actual tracks. And so we ended up making our first four or five records we released just out there to our fans, you know, fully independently with our buddies, Travis and Turner Eakins, there were also two local kids who just reached out to us and it was great, we got a great response, it allowed us to, you know, come out to LA and link with bigger producers and just start to really kind of get our toes in the water in any way possible. And so, you know, we noticed once we got out here, the quality of the music is kept increasing. And now it’s at a point where we feel like the music is really is really caught up if not exceeded, you know, our following, which was, you know, it was a little difficult at first to be taken seriously with the stigma around us being like all these fine kids, you know, these social media kids, but at the end of the day, any artists you see coming into the forefront of the limelight these days, I think, has some sort of stake in social media and a lot of their a lot of their growth, especially now more than ever is due to social media due to eclipse going on due to something happening that, you know, put them into the ether space and just everybody can do their shit. That’s what’s so amazing about social media. And so I think over time, you know, with enough big records with enough like, you know, late night performances of worship performances, I think we really started breaking that stigma and showing people we were real artists. And so, yeah, now we’re sort of detaching from the hip, just trying to be a little less co-dependent on one another because you know, there’s so there’s certain things jeez into that I’m not into certain things I’m into that he’s not into. And musically, we thought it would be a good opportunity for us to really showcase what we can do as individuals as opposed to having to compromise in a sense on every record, you know, between his singing my rapping or whatever it may be. It’s been a very exciting The first single of my, my project, my jack j projects came out about I think, September last year, and so it’s been almost a year, probably eight to nine months, since we’ve kind of been on these independent journeys. But it’s been awesome man, you know, it’s been quite a journey. And it’s really, I think everything I’m a big believer in the butterfly effect. Everything that’s happened is has led me to this point, you know, sitting here talking to you. So it’s been a wild journey. It’s been very exciting.

Adam Levy: I love it, man. I’m curious though, cuz you have a very unique creative process. I remember I was on Vine just like everyone else. I remember seeing you and jack and jack. And alongside like the Nash Greer’s of the world that Cameron Dallas’s that whole, that whole crew that original like high pass you guys like we’re the oh geez. Right? Dude, high key that shoots high key, but I’m curious more about your creative process, because I know you’re not very big on genres. Right? So how do you how do you approach and decide, I guess what you’re going to spend your creative energy on?

JVCKJ: Yeah, that’s a good question. Um, I like to thank my favourite artists personally, are the artists who kind of, I think time and time again showcase their versatility don’t get stuck on the same sound in terms of music for sure. Don’t get stuck on the same sound and can kind of get outside of the box of what people want to put them in, you know, and can always change that box can always expand the edges in a sense. And so to me, like every record, I think the consistency between them when I put out music is, is my tone is like, you know, the way I sound, but I like I like having some slower record some more A B record some records where I’m purely singing some records where I’m purely rapping. To me, it’s about showcasing what you can do. Across the spectrum, you know, because then there’s going to be a record that could potentially hook in anybody from any, from any genre. It’s like, let’s say somebody loves r&b music, you know, I have some slower, you know, just guitar centric, like, records that. So the whole, the whole goal for me is sort of to cover the soundscape with my music, while still being consistent in terms of my tone in terms of my vocal delivery. Um, and yeah, I think I think I just want to be ever changing, ever evolving. I think that’s what any artist should aspire to be. Because, you know, the times of music are always changing, you know, people’s tastes are changing month by month, you know, it’s a quick, it’s a quick change, you know, out of nowhere, this punk rock kind of vibe came out, right? UK is in the youngbloods. And so it’s interesting, I’m just watching the landscape change in attempting to change with it, and also, more importantly, attempting to be on the forefront of the change, and be the one who spurs the change, you know? Yeah. Yeah, that’s, that’s kind of what I would say, my, my process is like, it can, it can start off with any given thing, it can be a beat, it can be a lyric, just like a creative bar that I have in my head that I want to base an entire song around. But um, in terms of the actual music, I always, the key thing for me is to showcase my versatility from record to record for sure.

Adam Levy: Yeah. And I like I scoped out your Insta page. And I think I was even a follower of yours, I might have been doing vine, or however the way their algorithm worked. But I remember also the creative process and kind of creating these videos and his content. And tying it to the music is also unique within itself. And that also, I feel like ties into your inspiration for launching your token, right? So how does that kind of like, kind of like melt together, like for the process of creating these really dope, unique videos that really play on comedy, right? You’re trying to create good energy, make people happy? And then also tag along this really sick music? And now you’re doing this token? Like, how does that kind of all synergize together?

JVCKJ: Yeah, it’s really kind of cool how it came about. So um, we ended up we had a conversation with the guys over at yellowheart, which they, they kind of onboard of the Creator coins, the creator coin, I guess, establishment on the rally network, which is really cool. What there’s about 130 creaters on there right now, I think I was probably one of the first like 60 or 70, I got in there pretty early. And essentially what we wanted to do was create this ecosystem within my PSTL World Within the jack j world where the people who really like our true supporters of me can get early access to things and can be incentivized to be coin holders in the past Dell coin. And so essentially, what’s what we’ve done with it is anytime we release a new single a new video, or we just want to do something exclusive for the fans, I know you mentioned we have the streetwear line coming out soon. So I’ll get to that in a second. But what we’d like to do is have some early access for anybody who’s a coin holder or PSTL coin holder. And so one of our biggest utilities is we have a subsection of my PSTL discord, where its coin hold its coin holder exclusive. And so if you are a coin holder, you get verified within that subsection of the discord. The night let’s say before I release a song all go on there with a group of people depending on how many are in there, I think it’s limited to like 25 people per subsection chat room in terms of the video calls. And so some nights if there’s 100 coin holders you want to be in there, I’ll do four separate rooms back to back to back and back. And all essentially preview them the song, let them cut their cameras on, get their first takes on it. It’s just a way for us to be more intimate with the people who really support us as creators. And, and it’s awesome because I think it a helps the coin in general you know, incentivizes people to buy the coin and, and to hold on to the coin More importantly, because we’re in this day and age where people are just looking for the quick flip. So you know, they’re, they’re doing all these mean coins and shit coins that just like, you know, they’re looking just a fucking excuse my language just to catch that I can just you know, cash out and it’s, it’s kind of a, it’s kind of like the anti-approach we’re trying to take, you know, we want this coin to be something that’s has longevity and it’s been great, you know, outside of like the actual increase that the coins value has had since release, I think the utility just becomes more and more fruitful with each release. And with each thing we’re doing and so over the streetwear line, we’re going to have an exclusivity period. Um, whether it’s a weekend or a full week, we haven’t quite gotten to the to the details of it, but we want to make sure your coin holders have first access to buy stuff before it sells out before um, before the general public has access to. If you’re a coin holder, we’re going to have a way to verify you through our Shopify website and make it so if you purchase you, you a have a chance to get more PSTL one. And you know, if you’re one of the early purchasers who has passed Oakland already you have a chance to get more PSTL Quinn and on top of that nobody can buy it when you buy it so you have everything and so whether it’s music, music videos streetwear any way that we can incentivize people to hold on to the coin and be a coin holder on the better and so yeah, it’s been great the growth in the community has been absolutely stunning. I’m starting to see people who like may not even know who I am just like you know putting money into the coin because they’ve seen its growth and seen the hype around it and it’s been awesome. You know, it’s been Very cool way to kind of create our own economy and his world right? And also utilise this this new this newfound cutting edge crypto space that you know not many people have tapped into yet so.

Adam Levy: Yeah, no, there’s so much to unpack there because you just talked about the utility behind the token, your inspiration behind you again, now, you’re actually building a community around and you’re able to basically centralise your more hard-core fans in a way and incentivize them and create more unique and intimate experiences for them. And also rewarding them along the way for the contribution and it’s a lot of what I kind of want to kind of dive deeper into, but how long have you been in crypto for? Like, what what’s the story behind that? How did you like, how’d you get into it? Because everyone has like, their unique story behind getting into the space?

JVCKJ: Of course, I was like, a very menial coin holder. And, you know, I had I had a little theory, I’m a little Bitcoin like, for, you know, the past couple years, I’m never really paid it, like too much mine, I was like, okay, like, I have friends who are telling me to go all in on this shit. And then I also have friends, like, my traditional Portfolio Manager, who’s back in Omaha, Nebraska, where I’m from, he’s always been, like, the biggest like naysayer against like, you know, like, he doesn’t trust crypto, because he works in a more traditional sense. And so it was kind of like, in my mind, I’m like, okay, I don’t know, if I’m fully sold on it yet. Um, and then I think really, within the last year, after seeing just the way that crypto has been moving in the belief of the people really just rising day by day, in the fact that I really think this could be the new currency, you know, across the world, whatever it may be, I think, whether every country has their own crypto, whether every, there’s something very interesting there because A is decentralised, which is very cool. You know, it doesn’t fluctuate based off of, you know, the price of the dollar or anything, it’s based, what I noticed is a lot of it is based off of the belief of the people, which I think is kind of the case with a lot of more traditional stocks in that sense. But yeah, the more the more hype, you can generate around something, which, what I’ve noticed is like, something I’m good at is generating hype, whether it be around a record, or around a video or a piece of content. Um, that’s sort of like how I started my career, you know, is just creating these viral moments and creating these, uh, these impactful clips in whatever medium they may, you know, come from, right. So with crypto, it felt like it was at this point where we see all these new coins coming out week by week, and it’s hard to know which ones to trust. So creating my own coin with an actual utility behind, it seemed like something really interesting. And that’s something that could really, just keep my fan base locked in and make them and make them double down on my coin, which, you know, I already believe in as you know, creator, but when you’re getting early access to stuff, and you’re and so I guess back to your question, How did my crypto journey start, um, honestly, through a lot of just like, a friends kind of like putting me on the game and, you know, learning me the process. And yeah, I feel like I didn’t really have too much of a grasp of it up until I made my Creator coin and realise, you know, how it was minted and, and started actually, you know, converting actual coins to one another through, you know, whether it be uniswap or metamask. And like, actually, like, creating my own profiles, and all these things, and learning the ins and outs, you know, I had to sit down for a few hours to figure out how to even do my first like, you know, metamask transference. So, it definitely was a process, but I think it was something that I had to be forced to learn to do via my own creator coin. And now I feel like I have a much better grasp on the space like definitely nowhere near an expert, you know, like, I, I’m probably like, you know, in the kindergarten phase in terms of crypto, whereas most people I think, are probably in you know, nursery school. So at least I have a little a little edge up on some people, but it’s been really exciting, man. And I think, you know, I’m looking to get way more into it. And then upcoming years, it’s just like a future for sure.

Adam Levy: No, you’re like, for sure the future, right, the fact that you’re already messing with uniswap you’re opening a metamask you’re transferring token from one point to another point. I guess my next question is why end up going with rally versus creating like your own, I guess eath based token and what do I mean by that right? Rally has a really easy way to onboard creators, mint tokens, like you said, but then you also experienced yourself like the other half of messing with uniswap opening up a Meta mask. Like why go through the rally route versus I guess the more traditional ERC-20 token or the traditional eath token you know.

JVCKJ: That’s a good question because you know, in order to like transfer any of these creator coins from rally you have to have like some grasp of, you know, how to go from, it was definitely a process because rally actually does this thing called the rewards programme where it incentivizes people who hold coins. And every week based on how, how many people are buying the coin, how much money is going into the coin, if you’re a coin holder based on whatever percentage of the entire pot that you own, you will get incentivized with more rally coins right? Every single week that you can a put back into the creator coin to keep supporting them more so or you know, you can cash them out. And so in order if you if you do want to cash out the rally coins, you have to I noticed you have to create a few other profiles on using these different applications. And so um, I think Rarely, I really liked the, just the look of the website, it was very clean. Um, and they, they seemed like they were the most interested in what I had to offer, you know, they really, they really took time to like, Listen to my vision, and everybody on the team like really, really thought that what I had to offer was something very interesting and something that we could incentivize. And so, um, yeah, it felt like science. Yeah, a partner who actually had more of a grasp and like me just trying to create my own ERC 20 token, you know, shot in the dark type shit. It seemed like they had a great platform and a great team that already could, you know, help me fill in the missing pieces that I didn’t quite understand yet at the time.

Adam Levy: Yeah, no, it makes a lot of sense. Obviously, these platforms that make it very easy for people to kind of get on boarded. And on the other end, they provide cool tools for their audiences to kind of create accounts and to use this tokens and whatnot. So when you were kind of pitching them your vision, what was that? Exactly? What were your goals behind doing something like this?

JVCKJ: Yeah, so um, to give you a little backstory on PSTL, in general, the whole brand is based off just, you know, I want to push the people who support me and people who may not even know me, and who just like happen to cross the brand in the internet space, wherever they may see it. Um, it’s an acronym, actually, it stands for progression always starts through experiencing life. And so to me, like the PSTL colours, like this, for example, like this PSTL pink, there’s sort of like the intermediary colour, the progressive state of any given colour, you know, let’s say like, just pure white is like 0% saturation. And then a full vivid like, thick, you know, pink, like a hot pink, is 100% saturation. This is sort of like in that 30 to 75th percentile in terms of saturation. So I like to view it as the progressive state of any given colours. So the colour waves, the branding, behind everything, the logo, it’s all in PSTL tones, which to me represent growth they represent, you know, you’re trying to push yourself every day, it’s our goal as humans to try and saturate our, our palette of life day by day, and try to get it as vivid as possible. But at the end of the day, there’s always room for improvement. So we are all PSTLs, we’re all ongoing works. And that’s sort of the whole mantra, and just theme behind PSTL. Um, and so I think that really caught their attention, because it seems like a seems like something that youth really need right now to you know, I mean, I think anybody needs it in general, but obviously, like, you know, with my fan base, and the people that I’m targeting more, so I’m in the mediums that I’m on, I’m definitely targeting the youth in my generation and generation beneath me, I think we live in this world where it’s so easy to fall into this funk of this, you know, I’m being a slave to technology, and just, and just like, you know, letting, letting your priorities and your goals go to the wayside, because there’s all this content, you can just consume. And I’ve even been in periods of my life where, like, you know, I, I feel like, I’m just wasting time and just like scrolling through content on my phone, and I’m like, What did I just do? You know, and so, the goal is, and of course, like, this is where, you know, I made my money and, you know, made my name was through this content. So like, I’m not knocking, content consumption and content creating, it’s just about finding a healthy balance and making sure you’re prioritising your goals over anything else, you know, especially in this day and age where it’s super easy to let yourself get side-tracked with all this stuff to consume all these video games, all these all these, all these content platforms. And yeah, the whole the whole theme behind that. And the whole pitch I had in talking to yellowheart. And rally was sort of just along those lines and just giving you my vision, and I think they were really interested in they, they helped to kind of find ways and give us some initial ideas on how we could utilise the coin and make it more incentive based for the for the real supporters in the real fans. But yeah, that’s like that’s the whole message behind the brand. And it’s something I’m really, really passionate about. And, you know, I have I have a grand goal for it, you know, PSTL records, I want to have, you know, the PSTL, I want to have my PSTL studios where each room in the studio is a different PSTL colour theme based on whatever mood you’re in that day. And it’s this is just the infancy of the vision, you know, the first half year nine months of division, and so I’m really excited to see what’s to come. But yeah, I think rally was really receptive to what I was what I was kind of putting out there. I think

Adam Levy: I think the beauty behind like using these platforms, now you have tik tok, and you get consumed by this, like limitless feed. And it’s one thing to create this content, but it’s also another thing to kind of create content with a unique message that aligns a group of people under a mission under values under morals, right, and then funnelling them into a more, I guess, widely accepted community where they can meet other like-minded people with that, and I think that’s what these social tokens do, right? They allow people to, to kind of one collect something that many other people who are like minded get to collect as well and to put them in an environment where they get interact and hang out in exchange messages, laughter whatever it is that they want to exchange with each other because now they have a financial stake in the brand right now they have a financial stake in what they’re doing. And it’s interesting to see how that’s kind of played out. What have you seen be the reactions from your from your community? Are they loving it? Were they sceptical? Well, tell me about that?

JVCKJ: Sure. Sure. I mean, a lot of my fans, you know, I’m around my age or younger, you know, a few older not too many, you know, but uh, at the end of the day, I think a lot of them kind of came in a little weary when I when I was when I announced the coin Especially with all these coins being promoted, which this is like, I feel like the polar opposite of all these. You see people putting up stories like in like all these influencers putting up stories and get this coin and it’s really only beneficial to them because, you know, they’re getting paid out in that coin and then they’re probably cashing out and you know, like, just pretty much cashing out on their fans, which is, I don’t know, it’s very sneaky to me. And so do it really quick.

Adam Levy: That’s what Kim Kardashian is literally doing, she posted something on her story with this like shit coin, and she’s like, they just burned half of their supply, you should go buy into it kind of thing.

JVCKJ:  Yeah. And then she like once it once it rises, you know, she’s probably just cashing out selling. And it’s interesting to me, because I have a few buddies who like I really trust in the crypto space. And I did one coin promotion. Um, and, you know, I really felt like I can trust them. And like, this coin was like, something that’s really going to come to fruition it had, it had a good, um, I think it had like a pretty good like, philanthropic, like utility behind it, I forget exactly what it was. But they’re like, trust me, man, trust me, like, I promise you and all your fans can make a lot of money off this. And, and so I promoted it. And it the coin was like, essentially non-existent within a few days, like it got rug pulled or whatever happened. And I just, I felt like an asshole. You know, I was like, if any of my fans did buy this, you know, hopefully didn’t put too much money into it. But like, that’s when I realised, you know, like, and then I start seeing all these stories from all my influencer friends. And I’m just sitting here like, Oh my god, you guys are just like playing, playing your fans for fools. And so even now I get, like, at least five or six messages every week, from friends of mine, like, do you want to promote this in exchange for some coin, or you want to promote this? And I’m just like, I just, I started, I got my own coin. Why would I especially that I’m like, you’re going to have my own coin to promote, and, you know, try to cultivate this kind of culture around? Why would I? Why would I be putting my time and energy into these coins that, you know, time and time again, have shown that they just don’t hold up? And they really have no merit.  And, and so, Wait, what was your original question that we did get a little side-tracked on.

Adam Levy: No, it’s just like, I guess, the community’s feedback behind doing something like this and you sharing that? Initially, you were kind of dabbling into crypto testing out the waters, you know, but now it’s different, because now you have something that unites people internally within your community. Right? Totally. And like in like, I guess, because of those rock pools, right, because of those weird experiences that people have a lot of my assumptions when now creators launch their own tokens is like, Oh, here we go. Another one, right. And even more, so now. They’re attaching their name to it. Right, like, so I but I guess you’re telling me that your audience actually really, they f**ks with it. Like, they liked it. They enjoyed it.

JVCKJ: Yeah, I think once they did their research, and the great thing about rally is they have you know, an FAQ section where like, if you don’t know what’s going on, in terms of like, you know, the creator coin space. Um, it’s a super simple like, two, three page read through that just answers all of your questions. And like, I think once I let my fans to that, that FAQ section on the website, and they actually did some research for themselves, because I would never tell anyone to invest without actually doing research yourself. You know, I can tell you, from my personal perspective, I believe in myself, so I believe in the coin, and I believe, you know, it’s going to stay on the rise for years to come. And there’s really no, no, no ceiling to it in my mind. Um, but of course, I want everyone to do their own research. And, you know, always tread lightly, and make sure make sure you trust what you’re doing. Right? Well, I think once fans actually like, got a grasp of what was going on. And, um, it’s interesting because like, I’m not like, the, the whole point of this is like not to, like, make people a tonne of money, which could be you know, a side thing, you know, that you can make money off of this, the coin has already risen, like, you know, 1000s of percentiles, which is like, besides the fact but I think once they saw my coin was actually rising in value. And on top of that, they were getting early access to everything, everything just kind of, I’m hitting from all angles. I think the fans really started to believe and, you know, the actual broader crypto network started to believe in PSTL coin, I saw people just like, just putting on unreal amounts of money into it. And I’m like, I don’t there’s no way I know this person who just put 10 grand into my coin. I don’t that’s one of my fans, you know what I’m saying? So, I don’t know, it’s interesting to see how like the broader crypto community has taken a liking to it. And on top of that, how my fans have really just, you know, gotten a lot of value out of it. I think.

Adam Levy: Yeah. Did you have any concerns or like questions? Or were you scared about anything prior to launching pstl, the token?

JVCKJ:  it’s a good question. I was pretty, I was pretty confident in what we were doing just because we had had many like, you know, previous conversations with everybody on the team and everybody who was behind it. Um, and, yeah, no, I feel like I was I was prepared, and I was ready, and I had to grasp what was going on. You know, I think if you would have asked me like, two months before I launch the coin, and like, it was just laid out to me, I probably would have been like, I don’t know if this is a good idea. I am, like literally, like, you know, two months prior, I really had such minimal crypto knowledge and so, um, yeah, I think I think all the conversations leading up and really kind of, you know, suppressed any fears I may have had, and I felt like I was very confident especially seeing the other people on their network, you know, big Twitch streamers Big Band, like, I think their first person was Portugal, the man the band Portugal demand and their coins at like 45 bucks right now like, type shit. It’s crazy. Yeah. And I was seeing all these creators on their growing their coins growing their kind of crypto expertise and their, I guess legitimacy in that in that sense. And it was very interesting to me because, you know, I’m, I’m all about what’s next. And this seemed like, the creator coin seems like what’s next? And since I’ve been on there, you know, they’ve doubled the amount of creators in the last like four or five months. And that’s only going to, you know, triple quadruple, you know, exponentially. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I think I think all my fears were definitely, you know, kind of off to the wayside by the time we were ready for launch.

Adam Levy: Yeah, I think the most interesting part about this is, especially from your stories that you have such a grand following, you have such a unique audience, a lot of projects that launch in the crypto space, they typically start with nothing and build their way up to follow it right, you kind of take it from the other way around, you have your millions of followers, you have your passionate members in your in your community in your audience. And now you’re giving them a new means to kind of interact and engage with you on a more intimate level. And I think like, like you said, like the on boarding process is kind of difficult, but it sounds like the way you approached it referencing documentation. Were you were you doing any like guides or yourself or like Instagram lives or like, any form of content creation on your own and to kind of educate people. 

JVCKJ:  In terms of release?

Adam Levy:  Yeah.

JVCKJ: So essentially, the day we released it, I made like a minute long, kind of paraphrased version of like, where you can get the coin what it’s going to be used for, um, and we actually gave away a lot of free coins the first day, anybody who signed up, I think we had up to 200 people, and I think we filled out 200 slots within the hour. But, um, we said upon my announcement video, I’m like, Alright, first 100 people to sign up, we’re giving you 10 free PSTL coins. And this is when the coin was still at, like 40 cents. Like, you know, like, right when I hit the market and, and, you know, to those people, like even some of my friends, it’s funny, because like, I would tell them, I’m like, make a rally account, and I will send you some coin. And, you know, this is when the coin was at 40 cents. And like, when I started hitting like, eight bucks, they start hitting me back up, like I was like, I was like, Okay, now you just didn’t trust me. Hmm. But like, regardless, none of it’s about like the actual, you know, price point of the coin. To me, it’s about the utility of it at the end of the day. Yeah, so we did do like sort of like an onboarding video and told people how to get the coin, how to get free coin that first day if they wanted it. And it was good. I think it kind of eased some people’s nerves because like, if I just tweeted out a link, like, Yo go to my Creator coin, or like, you know, when people were all doing that BitClout thing, whatever that well, I don’t know. Like, what even was that? Was that like a?

Adam Levy: That was a really, really good social experiment. That was that got a lot of criticism for its execution because the criticism came in because people were allowed to send in their Bitcoin and swap it for bit cloud. Yeah. But they weren’t able to take out their Bitcoin, right? I don’t know where it’s at today. I haven’t used it since I remember when it came out that that weekend, there was a lot of talk about it. I was like, what do you mean Coin base ventures is behind it. The Winklevoss twins are behind it. A lot of these big known VCs that only back like unicorns and like top projects are back in the social experiment. All it is Dude, it’s just like a human stock market. Right? And your price is heavily fluctuated based off a very strict bonding curve, which basically means the more people that buy into it, the higher the price goes I like the larger the network effect the higher the price but it’s like steep right like that’s why you have Elon musk trading at like $80,000 or at least that’s what it was when I remember it. And all they did they just took like the top I guess top influencers on Twitter and tokenize them on their behalf and there’s a lot of like ethical ship behind it whatever but what it did do it allowed people to think about the space more critically and open conversations that otherwise weren’t happening right so I’ll give him that it showed people the potential that wait a minute like I can I can take my brand in my influence and attach a value number to it and wait a minute now I can also empower my fans with that like shit like there’s something here.

JVCKJ: They had like a feed almost like a Twitter like feed going to where the social media in a sense to you know.

Adam Levy: Yeah, it was like a decentralised Twitter that’s what it was.

JVCKJ: Honestly, I think I think if they made that interface like not look like it was made in like, you know, Microsoft Word just like normal asphalt, like it just looked like I think that’s what threw a lot of people off was just like how I guess not clean it really looked kind of looked like it was typed out in a note or something. But regardless Yeah, it was interesting because I noticed like a lot of these creators were on there but like they weren’t on there but their names were on there. So I was like, everyone’s like claim your profile claim your profile your coins already at this much or something. And then all my friends who haven’t claimed my profile I tweeted out tweeted out, I think so they could, you know, get the returns on, you know, the initial spike. But it was very interesting. Yeah. So but I guess outside of that, I was like, you know, all these people trying to get me to post these, these meme coins and, you know, these BitClouts, and I would just rather focus on something that I know as utility within my world. And I know I have a team of, you know, around that I can actually talk to this hands on that can answer any questions that I may have, you know, especially with me being in my infancy of my mike, a crypto mine, you know.

Adam Levy: No, it’s cool because like, now you have jack, you have all these people hitting you up to do all these promos and shit, right? And like, obviously, they get people’s stuff out to your audience. It has an effect. But I think about this space and correct me if I’m wrong, because you have a lot more experience in the influencer marketing side that, like, if someone wants to promote something with you right now, what didn’t you basically tell them, You want me to push your skincare product, you want me to push XYZ, buy 100,000 tokens and hold on to them. Be a core contributor, be a core member of my community, you believe in me, my audience you want to sell to them? If I can buy 100k worth of tokens, you know.

JVCKJ:  Really interesting. Bring that up, dude. Wow.

Adam Levy:  Right, so like, now you’re like reimagining what social influencer, marketing can be right? And now you’re creating…

JVCKJ:  In cash or like, or wiring me. You know, like, how many grand for a story post, say, Okay, I want you to put that how many grand directly into PSTL. Right? And now you do a brand deal. Entire community?

Adam Levy:  Yes.

JVCKJ:  And show me that you actually believe me as a person as opposed you just want my following. You know, that’s interesting. I think I need to start coming to some of these brands.

Adam Levy:  I’m telling you doing what you could do. Now, imagine, imagine you approach it from this point of view, you buy 100k tokens, because now you’re basically telling them like, okay, and I’m thinking out loud here, like we’re getting like creative session here. Alright. You get you get to the point of view, like they have a skincare product, whatever, let’s just use skincare for whatever reason, okay? jack, I want you to promote this product, you Tom by $50,000 with the tokens, and you do the post, you do the Instagram story, whatever you do the discord post, and then they’re like, now I can sell it now I can dump. So what you got to do, you got to be like, No, I’m locking you into a contract, you can only sell once you buy in every so often. But if you hold we can do more collabs together, right? We can do more engagements together. And now you’re building my community with me?

JVCKJ:  No, totally. Because that is the one kind of like fear that comes into my head. I’m like, you know, if these companies because right when they buy 50,000, the price rally fluctuates almost immediately. Like, if you refer if you like is all I’ll get weekly rewards. And I’ll put them back into PSTL the majority of every single time, it’s actually interesting, I want to talk to you about, we’re doing this really cool thing with the music where I’ll put about like 50 to 70% of my weekly rewards. So for anybody who doesn’t know what weekly rewards are, in terms of the rally network, they um, based on how active your coin is, that week, they will pump rally back into the community. So I think our biggest week, it was about I think like $35,000 with a rally that was pumped back into community. So based on how much of a percentage of the entire coin pot that you hold on you get it you get that back into your profile in terms of rally, so let’s say you own 1% of that 35,000 you know, you get 350 rally back into your back into your account that week, which is you know, depending what the price of rally is, can be 300 bucks can be you know, 450 bucks, right and I tell all my friends who get their weekly rewards that I’ve given coins to them, I just put it straight back into PSTL so we can keep this community growing and that’s what I try to tell my family to do. Um, so it incentivizes you as a coin holder but what’s really cool is we actually have set aside like a certain chunk of these rally rewards and with me being an independent artist um you know, we have expenses we got to pay for the street wear line up front for music videos, it’s all coming out of my pocket, you know, in some videos can that we’ve done a cab been upwards of like, you know, 10 to 12 grand and so what’s great about this is me being a majority coin holder Um, I’ll get a decent chunk of these rewards every week and we’ve been using that sort of as like our label budget in a sense so we’ve almost turned PSTL coin into like the label budget for the content that the fans who own PSTL coin get early access to its this kind of like this this awesome cycle that is allowing us to make the best content possible and incentivizing the fans to see that content early if they are coin holders themselves and you know, get exclusive access and whatever facet and so it’s this really interesting I don’t know if he’s even doing this.

Adam Levy:  Dude, you’re literally like you’re defining what it is to be a creator economy. Like it’s a buzzword that people like to plug and play and frickin talk about but that’s legit like a crater economy. That’s a lot of what kind of social tokens aim to do the fact that like, you can launch a token right? You can freak in go public quote, unquote, what’s the value? How are you creating circulation? Right? How are you incentivizing people to buy and spend right and create a flow of money? It’s, it’s great, I think and that’s why like, the whole impetus of this show is like to kind of cover these stories and to kind of share these unique ways that people are making businesses of themselves and their brands that extend beyond web to primitive Right, I think you’re on the cusp, you’re literally doing it.

JVCKJ:  Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s exciting, you know, it’s I feel like it’s, we’re on the forefront of something that a lot of creators could be using to their advantage very soon musicians, artists, really anybody in any sort of medium across the creative space. It’s Yeah, I want to kind of like, you know, almost be the guinea pig, the blueprint, and just like we’re trying this thing out, and it’s seeming to go really well. And it’s seeming to be the self-sustaining economy that we’re making. And it’s cool, you know, hopefully, we can eliminate the need for all these major labels to be swindling artists and you know, just taking kind of just taking control of their careers and absolutely, making a mockery of them in time. And not actually, you know, they’re, they’re in debt to them, as opposed to being in debt to them. Why not, you know, self-sustain your own economy, if you ask, you have a network of people who believe in you like this is this could be a way in the future to do it.

Adam Levy: I love it. Dude, I love it. Let me let me ask you, your community. How did you even know they wanted something like this?

JVCKJ: I don’t think I don’t think they knew they wanted something like this until it…

Adam Levy: Oh, so you’re just like, fuck it. Let’s just experiment here. Let’s just try something new.

JVCKJ: Yeah, I will say though I did always want to, like I was utilising my Twitch, which is cool. We actually have PSTL coin integrated into my twitch profile and your cool tip in PSTL coin, you can send it other people have via Twitch, it was kind of really, really cool integration. But I was getting fans early access to stuff on my streams. Um, and to me, I was like, what’s a better way to do this, instead of just giving everybody just like free open access, like, what’s a way to, like, you know, make it a little more exclusive. Instead of, you can just tune into my twitch for free, obviously, and just and watch this shit early. Um, it kind of eliminated like the appeal of like, Oh, I feel like I’m getting this and no one else is, you know. Um, and so as opposed to doing that, this coin seemed like the perfect way to do it, this this kind of marketplace and networks, you make the perfect place to do it. Because it really provided exclusivity to the people who wanted to take the time and learn about my coin and actually get my coin purchase my coin. And so that’s how I know people are actually, um, you know, somebody who’s really supportive of me if they’re, if they’re actually, you know, going out of their way to learn something that might be very foreign to them at first, you know? And so, yeah, that’s sort of how that all came about. Um, but yeah, I really didn’t know how they’re going to react. I just knew I wanted a better way to give fans exclusive content and, you know, just a way a way to get stuff early. And, yeah, we’re still we’re still trying to think of other ways that we can utilise the coin to you know, I feel like we’re just skimming the surface at this point with early access. Because early access, like that’s very easy, like it’s kind of the first thing that comes to mind when thinking about how to utilise creator coin. Yeah, but we’re trying to think more so about how we can get the fans involved. You know, we want to do something where we have our coin holders vote on let’s say, we have two music video treatments for the same song. And we only give access to the coin holders to view these two PDF treatments of the two documents and they vote on which music video we’re making, you know, or like stuff that makes them more invested in in the whole PSTL world and everything that we’re creating, you know.

Adam Levy: Golden dude, I think that’s like that’s the key right there. Like how do you create I guess more of this like Dao model right? Like where this this buzzword for those who don’t know, it’s like a term that’s roaming crypto Twitter, a lot of new projects are experimenting it basically decentralising ownership decentralising governance, putting the power into the hands of the people are making should happen, right. And giving them one a financial incentive. And I guess also, like, a creative incentive and like a non-equity own, like, stake kind of thing, right. And I think that’s, that’s, that’s definitely where it’s kind of, like, push it towards.

JVCKJ:  like, allow them to make decisions without like, necessarily, like owning any part of like, you know, me, but like, they still have, like, I guess, creative equity in a way where, like, they can help curate and make these decisions and help you know, like, whatever the vision is that the fans and like the real diehards, want to see is the one that we create based off of, you know, whichever way they vote on, let’s say, these two things. And yeah, there’s a million other things you’ve been talking about. Um, but yeah, we’re trying to figure out in the, in the upcoming months, how to really just find more utility for the coin and integrate it more and more so every, every single month and [Inaudible]

Adam Levy:  No, dude, its super exciting, because right now, okay, and I don’t I don’t want to show price. But I think its important factor of the PSTL community, and just kind of like talking about what that price means to you. Okay, so, right now, PSTL is currently trading at what, four $4.32 when I was drafting these questions, I that’s what the prices could have changed as around 303 supporters. What does that dollar number mean to you? Because when you started, I think I saw like back February 17. Like that’s when the token launched, I went all the way back to the history. And it’s done really, like relatively well. And if you were an old early holder, you’d have reaped a lot of those benefits of growing with the PSTL community. But what is that? What is that value mean to you as an individual as a creator, because I only bring this up and think about it because you’re tying a financial value to your name, right. So what does that mean to you?

JVCKJ:  Well, to me, the value is More, I guess symbolic than it is just like directly monetary, you know, like me being the majority coin holder of the coin, you know, I would never no matter what price PSTL gets to, I’m never going to sell my PSTL, because that’s just that takes the PSTL price. It’s just, that’s something I would never do. And so, um, to me like, it’s nothing I’m looking to make money off of, um, it’s more so it’s more so a symbolic value of like, how there are these people that are that are believing in me and like I think if they see the price go up, um, it’s sort of motivates them as a fan of mine. They’re like, okay, there’s something happening here. You know, what he’s doing with this, is on the increase, and it’s pretty crazy man like, yeah, I think we were at like, eight $8 something before like the big different crypto in general. Because I know, I know, if I’m not mistaken, rally is backed by the Ethereum network, and there’s a certain amount of rally embedded into each creator coin. Um, and so when you’re actually minted, like on the blog, they’re all like actual minted crypto’s they’re not like these, these weird third party, you know, like, really legitimate cryptos. So I think I think what the price really symbolises to me is just the growth of PSTL on the belief in PSTL and, and I think when other people see that price go up, you know, I think they, they’re more motivated to go harder for me as a fan to you know, as a supporter.

Adam Levy: Yeah, well, what happens jack, when the price goes down? How does your audience kind of reply to that and react? Do they react? Or is it more of like, you’re just in it, you’re part of the ride? Like, when you’re a part of a community, there’s always ups and downs, you know?

JVCKJ:  Yeah. And I’ve prefaced that to them a million times, like God wants you to buy this coin in hopes of, you know, just making a tonne of money, which, if they did cash out at this point, in, they got an early they have made a tonne of money, but like, that’s, like, I want you guys to hold on your coins, when you get your weekly rewards, put it back into PSTL, or you can use that as, like, let’s say, someone literally put in $10 in the infancy when was that 40 cents. Now it’s at $4. You know, they’re $10 is now $100. And then every week, they’re probably getting, you know, 20 or 30 bucks in rally. So like they’ve, they’ve already made their money back essentially, like rally incentives. But outside of that, it’s, I always preach to them, you know, we’re in this for the long run, we’re in this the whole this isn’t for any of us to make money. It’s for all of us to you know, grow, grow something special and curate a culture around this coin, you know, more so than just like, oh, quick money, grab quick money grab, like, Okay, I’m going to cash out this week, like, yeah, yeah, it’s easy. And it fluctuates. It can fluctuate very rapidly to you know, it’s the crypto, it can be half tomorrow, it could be quadruple tomorrow. It’s like, there’s really no talent.

Adam Levy: I think you’re, I think you’re on the dollar. And I think you’ll have both sides where, and we’ll get into this a little bit later. But you’ll have both sides where you have your fans love you. Everything that you do the content, you produce the music that you make, they love that about you. And then you’re also going to have the side of this speculators and traders who they see your social clout, right. And they want to trade that they see the PR, the good and bad PR that comes out on you. And you’re going to try to make trading decisions based off that. So I think, with this market, you’ll have both of those parties. But we’ll get into that later. Okay, I want to, I want to talk more about the value, okay? Because, again, anybody can create a coin, but the value comes from the utility that attaches to that token, the community that rides that’s a ride and die community around that token, right? How do you how do you approach the creative value and the utility behind your token? Like, is there some type of framework that you use, you kind of just look at what other people have? Or what you have coming up in the pipeline and ask, okay, how can I create unique experiences for my token holders, before more of these passive fans kind of get active to access to it, like how do you how do you approach that?

JVCKJ: Yeah, so I think the first step is we sort of scope out what’s on the near horizon, um, in terms of like releases in terms of projects coming out in whatever facet and then and then we sit down me my manager and the people I rally and we and we haven’t even added the craziest things we haven’t even added there’s like a utility like page on each crater coins like page and we haven’t actually added any specific like, things on there yet. Because usually, like, it’s something that I’ll announce on my ancillary social medias, I’m leading up to a release, like okay, coin holders Be ready, like we’re going to, we’re going to be doing something special for you. Um, but yeah, so basically, it all starts with us kind of scoping out what’s on the near horizon. And then let’s say we got a signal coming out in two weeks. Okay, how are we going to utilise the coin for that and we have a video coming out two weeks after that, how we can use the coin for that whether that’s them getting a say as like, oh, what little Easter egg Do you want to put in this video, you know, coin holders vote or, or you just being able to see the video before anybody else wants to see the video live on YouTube. Um, we sort of dissect it on a project a project basis, and we only use it for about, I think four or five things thus far. A couple songs, couple videos. Um, but yeah, it’s definitely a stretch, but that’s just kind of, you know, thinking about how we get creative and how, and that’s why I really want to start stepping out of just the Early Access kind of wave that we’re in.

Adam Levy: like one thing that I see that’s perfect for you just again, thinking out loud and brainstorming like a meet and greet, right, like an in person meet and greet that solely Dedicated to if you have 100 jack tokens, you know, and or if I’m doing a show in a concert 1000 like, if you’re holding 1000 tokens, I have reserved five spots for people for people to come backstage, right and raffle those like, even though it’s access, right, but it’s also like, extends beyond the digital world, the real world.

JVCKJ: Yeah. And we were even thinking with some shows potentially on the horizon some deals possibly on the table for some live shows, which is just so exciting now that, you know, this pandemic seems to be just on the taper, which is just amazing. I’ve been itching so badly to get back out there. But something where, you know, if you’re a coin holder, you can scan something at the at the merch shop, or the, I guess you could call the merch shop at the show, and you get a nice little fat discount of your coin holder, you know, or what, whatever we can do that can actually take away from just the digital early access component and, and you can actually get stuff in real life, we actually had this idea to this one, this one is really cool, which I think we’re going to do, we’re thinking of 3d printing, actual physical PSTL coins, um, and then shipping them to like a diehard fan and each of the major markets around the world. And then we have them hide it somewhere. And we haven’t had it somewhere, take a photo, and then like, send us the photo. And then we do this, essentially a scavenger hunt this PSTL scavenger hunt campaign around the major markets all across the world. Um, you know, we’re thinking maybe we do like just the 10, the 10 biggest markets in the world, and we hide the coin. And then we do this Twitter campaign where we send the photo out where like, the coin is in it, but like, you don’t know where it is, but it’s somewhere within the realm of that photo in that city. And so then, like, we have these people scrambling from city to city trying to find the coin, and if they find the coin, they get like, let’s say 500 PSTL coins, like just on the house, you know what I’m saying? Like just for my sheer I just send them to you. Fucking powerful. Just stuff that can make people who like aren’t even a fan of me or even know my stuff, I think could see this on Twitter, because Twitter is just such a like, you know, things can just blow up massively. And if we do it the right way people can see this on Twitter. And you know, check the price point of the coin. Oh, it’s at $5 Oh, 500. That’s 2500 bucks. If I go get that right now, you know, and the one thing we have to figure out is how do we make it so like, whoever finds it doesn’t just sell it? That’s why you know, we do want to keep it like kind of, I would I would appreciate like a die hard finding it and I think in the most cases they would you know, somebody who really is a fan of me would probably end up being the one who finds it. Um, but yeah, the one the one kind of like hygiene, there’s like avoiding the person who just finds it and instantly cashes out the PSTL off the price. A little bit. Um, but yeah, there’s we want to do more interesting, like you said, real life integrations that expand outside of the digital world because I mean, man, it’s, there’s a million ways to promote this that aren’t via the Internet.

Adam Levy: Check this out. Now that like concerts are coming back to life, you being a dope ass performer, though best musician, probably going to be doing more music festivals and shit LED screens everywhere your fans are in the crowd, you can put up QR codes and reward them for coming and checking out your set. And you airdrop them and you reward them tokens, right? For being there physically for spending money on a ticket and coming to watch you taking the time out of the day. Thank you. Here’s 100 tokens.

JVCKJ:  That’s actually a genius idea, man. Think about that.

Adam Levy: That’s powerful.

JVCKJ: Hey, Jonathan, I know you’re watching this make sure.

Adam Levy: Yeah, dude, this is this is like, you know, a lot of people, so much fun. A lot of people get lost in the token price. But there’s so many cool things that you can do in in communities and incentives and rewards you can build around this stuff that it just takes, you just got to know your community, got to know what they want, what they love doing what they love about you. And now reward them for participating, rewarding them for streaming, reward them for tweeting, reward them for doing all this shit for being active members of community. And I guess that kind of comes into play where, you know, you’re trying to bridge out of the access, there’s a whole another category of rewards, right, just for participating. And you’re seeing a lot of people do the gated discords. Right. But now you’re starting to see that shift more is like, okay, like, I don’t want people just to feel like they’re spending and they’re spending, they’re spending and they’re spending like, how can I give? Yeah, let me get back. And I think that’s totally like, like, I could see that come to light 100% I’m like thinking out loud here. But I could come to life.

JVCKJ: You have a lot of great ideas on this stuff, like stuff that I really have not even thought about until you brought it up. But it’s exciting because yeah, it’s I’d never want people to feel like you know, they have to spend money to support me. So I want them to always be away if you don’t have money on hand. You know, if you’re dead broke, and you’re just like a struggling college student, but you like who I am in the message I bring and just everything around my brand. I want there to be a way that you can still, you know, gain for me not just through my content, but you know, like a way that I can possibly put some money in your pocket. Who knows, you know, if you it can be something as simple as you know, I’ll pick three random winners who tweet out the hashtag in my new music video to win you know, 50 PSTL coins and then like, any way that I can, you know, find a way to give back to the people who have been supporting me and actually put me in this position. Undeniably, the better.

Adam Levy: Here’s another idea now that you’re bringing that up like a lot of projects in crypto, a lot of projects in crypto that have billions of dollars under management. They’ve now started these Dao grants, basically, token holders get to vote on where the money that’s in the Treasury that’s actually dedicated to funding community initiatives, how that’s spent in empowering the community. Imagine there was a jack Treasury, right? Where you had you had some type of forum where your fans can fill out and they basically say, like, why am a jack fan how long I’ve been a fan for, I don’t necessarily have the financial means to get access into this network, maybe there’s a grant that you that you have going that you can actually airdrop people just to get into that initial barrier of the discord channel, at least, you know, you know, and like, like doing it a very charitable way that shows that dude, I’m so for this community, if you don’t have the money, just share with me why you love being a part of it, I’ll fucking I’ll make you a part of it,

JVCKJ:  We’ll get you in there. I’ll expedite this lunch. Yeah, totally. And that’s really like, where we want to go with it, though. Like the whole Treasury thing. We’re like, there’s this pot of, it could even be like with the rally rewards that that I have, personally, like, we can make that like an open pot. And the fans can decide what we do with that. Because at the end of the day, that’s just like, essentially, our labour budget, and we want to make the content that the fans want to see, you know, we want to make stuff the fans want to see we don’t want to just in sometimes, you know, I want to make executive decisions. I’m like, I think this needs something in the people might not even know they want it yet. But like, once they see it come to life, you know, based off like what I see in my head, I know they’re going to be appreciative of it. But there can definitely be something where we’re like, we set a good chunk of all this aside, and this is the money for the fans to literally get together and decide what they want to do with it. We could even have moderators within you know, the discord. That’s, that’s a talking about what to do with this Treasury pot, the people with access, and they can create votes, they can create, um, you know, essentially, they come up, I don’t even have to be in there, you know, they can. And then they’re like, Alright, we got something for you. We designated $5,000 of this to creating, um, you know, we want sweat shorts for your next…

Adam Levy: Whatever may be like anything that they’re excited about, just empower them and create a community for them to share and get excited about it with others.

JVCKJ: Totally, man. It’s awesome. Because like, it’s, we’ve only been doing this for, I think about four months since our coin came on the market came on the rally network and, and so it’s crazy how like, it’s just it still feels like we’ve been doing it for so long. Just because like there’s something going on with it every day. I feel like whether it’s just like, you know, us having a call with the people there or what’s next and how we can use the coin next. It feels like it’s been we’ve been doing this forever, even though it’s really in reality only been like four months since PSTL coin has been on the rally network. And so yeah, man, there’s just so much so much potential for it to grow and so much, so many just cool things we can do with it. And it’s it really excites me even just thinking about it right now.

Adam Levy: Yeah, no, I hear you, man, I hear you so much shit going on. All right, I only got a few more questions for you. I want to be respectful of your time. All right. So I guess, look, you’re obviously categorised as like an early pioneer in social tokens. You’re an early adopter, your fans are early adopters. Okay, you obviously that you understand the vision behind where this could be? What do you imagine the future of social tokens kind of looking like and evolving over the next five to 10 years?

JVCKJ: That’s a great question. That’s a really good question. I see, I see the majority of creators having some sort of whether they call it a token, wherever they end up calling it something that like, lives in this space, that that, like, I see everybody having their own economy, in some sense, within the crypto world, you know what I’m saying? And, and I think people are going to realise if you aren’t doing that, like in five years from now, it’s almost going to be like shooting yourself in the foot. You know, it’s hard to tell just because, like, the way the landscape is ever changing, just like so, so rapidly, but based off what I’m doing, you know, I think, I think it’s like, if you have a tattoo and fan base, and you’re not utilising something in the space, um, it seems kind of like, you know, almost idiotic to me. And I don’t want to like, you know, people obviously, there’s still very few in the world and we’re not quite there yet. But, um, even being one of the early adopters of the critical ones in the rally network, it’s like I based off what I’ve seen in the benefit I’ve gotten from it my fans have gotten from it, it seems like a no brainer to me, I think the majority of creators will and should have some sort of coin some sort of currency that keeps their fans culturally locked in together and, you know, gives them like a space to help them out, you know, and receive back and give back and it’s, it’s sort of like an I scratch your back, you scratch mine community, which is what I think a lot of these artists are missing. You know, they’re, they’re kind of separated behind this barrier of like, you know, a lot of people aren’t even into social media and don’t even interact with their fans too much. And people still love their art. But this is a way that I feel like people can feel like they’re, they’re on board with you without necessarily having the get a like on your, like, you know, have to have to get a response from the commenter there was still a way that like, they feel like they can be fully involved in your process. Without um, you know, if you’re not a social media person, and that gives you anxiety and you don’t want to be responding to messages all day. You know, I love it. Responding to my fans, but a lot of people don’t. A lot of people just aren’t that into that. And I totally get it. It’s not for everybody. Um, but this is a way that I feel like they can still feel fully involved in your creative process and what you’re doing, and feel like they’re actually making decisions alongside with you, as opposed just waiting, as opposed to just waiting for your decisions to be made, and then see what happens, you know, so yeah, 10 years, we’re going to see a lot more, I think majority of artists will have some sort of currency within their world and the brands are trying to create, you know.

Adam Levy: Yeah, I love that. All right, final question. So, are you familiar with black mirror?

JVCKJ: Very familiar, Yeah.

Adam Levy:  Okay. So, you know, like, it’s coming to a point where, and I asked everybody this question, I always end up with this question, okay. It gets to a point where you’re, you’re approaching a world that everybody’s going to have, or at least a lot of these influencers, creators, musicians are going to have $1 tag associated with their price with their personality with their character, right. And right now, a lot of people in society, we I think we can both agree, kind of argue your value, argue your sense of worth, based off how many followers you have, right, your influence, essentially, do you think we’re going to end up shifting to a world where you’ll still have your follower account, but what people put a preface more on is what you’re trading at, for example, jack is trading at $30. But Justin Bieber’s trading at $100, you know, more jack is trading at $100 in JB was trading at $25. Is jack more valuable than Justin Bieber?

JVCKJ:  That’s super interesting. It kind of reminds me of that, that specific episode where everyone has like their star ranking. And like, you know, you remember that episode where like, you have like your societal star ranking, and like, you don’t have access to certain things in society. Like you can’t even go to the grocery store. If your star ranking is like a three, much more much darker. You know, this is a more like, I guess, like a beneficial flip on it. But I think that it really is crazy. Like right now in this day and age, people are so caught up in their followers, it’s rare to find somebody who doesn’t even have social media A and then B, I feel like kids will literally be ostracised because they just don’t have enough followers, like in school and shit. And it’s very sad, it’s like, people put a lot of value on what you’re doing in front of the scenes and not behind the scenes. And I think I think that’s got to change eventually, you know, people are going to realise some of the most successful people, like, have no followers and are just sitting here behind the scenes and the utility, like their token or their value, like you’re saying, $25, $30, whatever it may be, can be high based on what they do behind the scenes. And I think that’s what’s great about these coins is, is my buddy Joey, he actually, he works with this company called give power and they’re coming, they’re coming out this coin called thirst coin, or the thirst, the thirst token. And it’s like 20% of all proceeds are going to be going to donating clean water and getting clean water to people in Africa and, and setting up systems and, and so I think the people who are doing more like philanthropic stuff, and not just generating following a buzz on the internet, um, I think should have a chance and should have the ability even if they don’t have a following to have their value be just the same as a beaver is you know, and so, hopefully, hopefully we don’t live in this follower driven world where I’ve been, you know, trying to not even focus on like, growing like, of course I want to grow followers and like it’s great because that’s like how I started and that’s like, you know, where my fans come from, but like I’m just I’m just trying to get a lot more hands on with my actual business behind the scenes and set myself up for you know, behind the scenes success as opposed to just on screen success because I love I love being hands on with all my phone calls. I’m I told my manager Jonathan I’m like, I want to be on every phone call. I don’t want you know, just to have stuff be done for me without me knowing what’s going on. And I think the people who are who are proactive in that sense and not just in terms of growing followers and making content a lot of the people with the most followers make Loki the worst content in my personal opinion, like literally regurgitated bullshit that just like anybody can make and they’re just catering to like this kind of Brittany’s audience and I don’t think those people’s value should be as high as the ones who you know work in the shadows and might have like, you know, let’s say 100,000 followers but like every one of those people really appreciate their artistic merit and appreciates what they bring to the table as opposed to just you know, making the most umbrella general content that the relatable stuff Yeah, so I think I think hopefully we get to a world where I’m where and Bieber is not even one of them because he makes great content and he has a great following right well those are no I only I only bring him up obviously because you definitely bring him up in that sense yeah, I think I think the people who are just as important society behind the scenes on should you know have a similar price point in terms of this this hypothetical price on people’s [Inaudible].

Adam Levy: like cuz like this shits like creating a public like, in a sense from how people understand markets, like a human stock market to an extent right a brand, a creator, a community stock market, essentially, and to see, like, just like you open your Robin Hood app and you see Apple, Microsoft, Tesla etc. Now you’re going to be seeing jack, you’re going to be seeing this person, this brand, this community.

JVCKJ: Headed man, for sure. And I think like, of course, if you have a following, there’ll be it’ll be much easier to utilise that. But I think what people fail to realise is, there’s so much more to having influence than just followers, you know, you can, you can literally not even be on social media and be one of the most influential people in the world. And I think that’s, you know, they think the only way for me to have you know, stronghold over an audience is to have a mass following. And that’s just, I don’t think that’s the case, you know, people are going to realise that real life matters just as much, I think we’re kind of going to have this correct this correcting and deciding, we’re like, followers have become the pinnacle, and the most important thing, all the brands are reaching out to the people with the biggest followers, and, you know, trying to get them on board, because that’s literally what runs the social space right now. And really, like the real world space right now, you just saw Logan, Paul box, Floyd Mayweather, because of how much he brings to the table in terms of his following, but I think we’re going to get to a point where, like, the anti-almost plays in more so than the, oh, you need to have followers. And I think there’s going to be this whole movement of people who are like, okay, you can have influence without having followers. And this is how you do it and, you know, work hard behind the scenes. And you don’t have to have everything fully overexposed on social media. And yeah, I would like to see the world to get more of more in balance in that sense. And hopefully, like those two people’s price points, who have the same amount of influence, but a very different following. They should be the same, you know, when that day does come.

Adam Levy: Its funny bring up first of all, I think that’s a great point of view. And I think I think you’re right, there’s a lot of people behind the scenes that don’t even have social followings that have done very, very, very well for themselves, and people have no idea who they are. And that also plays on the fact that like, people tend to be very anonymous online, especially on Twitter. Yeah, you have all these anonymous characters, etc. But the fact that you brought up Logan, Paul Mayweather right now just to entertain this thought, like I was at the fight, I was in Miami for the fight. Really, really? Yeah, really fun fight. It was the same week as a Bitcoin conference. So we said whatever we’ll go. But imagine if Logan Paul and Floyd Mayweather had their own tokens, right. And they like if they’re playing on the sports betting game like they are, they’re already trickling in that territory. You have barstool sports and all these other prediction markets kind of making bets on who will win. Will he walk out with Jake Paul, what song well, he played, imagine you can start making these bets in their native tokens. Because right now, all these bets, Logan, Paul and Floyd Mayweather, they don’t see any of that, right. But if they’re if they’re making bets in their native tokens, and they’re staking their tokens, or making bets accordingly, making decisions and assumption assumptions based on what’s going to happen using their native token using their social currency, you’ve introduced a whole new game.

JVCKJ:  That’s crazy, because then essentially, you could like, I mean, let’s say all let’s say Logan won that fight. Yeah, he has a token, all his fans bet his token. However much if they when they get double, let’s say, or whatever the line was, let’s say.

Adam Levy: You know, he tells him this. He’s like, if I win, I’m throwing a party that only token holders can get into.

JVCKJ:  Wow, that’s crazy.

Adam Levy: And now there’s a huge purchase that demands the price goes up like crazy, right? And now he’s doing a priority with all of his, like stakeholders, and they’re celebrating popping champagne doing their thing. And they’re all equally invested equally, quote unquote, right, but they’re all invested.

JVCKJ:  It wasn’t as low as when it was there win.

Adam Levy: Exactly, that’s crazy.

JVCKJ:  Yeah, cuz I wonder like, you can’t, like, I have like about 130,000 coin volume, like on my on my, like, that’s my cap. Yeah, that can be that can fluctuate based off, you know, people are putting money into everyone, right? Like, if there if there becomes a system where you can bet your own, or you can bet crypto, you can bet your own creator token. I wonder will there be a way like that? Will that market cap instantly double like or let’s say, you know, I have like 40,000 of my tokens, like and I bet 40,000 of my tokens like does that introduce a new 40,000 on the market that are in my pocket and like anybody else who bet two doubles their shit two or like I wonder how that would work because that would make the caps go…

Adam Levy: So think about it like this. Look, I don’t know I don’t know how rallies like tokenomic works. But a lot of these other ERC 20 tokens I get launched and published on aetherium main net or on layer twos like Matic whatever they structure there tokenomics from all the ones that I’ve seen, that don’t rely on role or rally these centralised platforms with a limited supply 10 million tokens. Yeah, never going to be more okay. And based off of that, you can make your speculations you can fractionalize one token into a half a token etc. You can make your beds based off that right so the supply cap would be hit the top right and people would just kind of like the more demand pressure there is the higher the price kind of goes right. The bigger the network effect, the higher the price swings. And if they’re if you’re like trying to play more on the Logan, Paul Mayweather thing, and he basically launches his token. He says that if I when I knock him out whenever there’s a party for all my token holders, there is a cap of 10,000 people you need. To have at least 10 tokens, so he makes a supply very low, but for a high volume of people, right, or I don’t know, maybe I’m not even thinking about this, right, this should so early, like,

JVCKJ:  That’s what I’m saying. It’s interesting. There’s definitely going to be a way though, where you can, like, you know, I think you’ll be able to start legitimately betting your cryptos I’m sure there already is a way we you can bet your cryptos on sports betting and shit. But I’m really interested to see how it plays out, especially when all these creators have their own, have their own tokens, they’re not promoting some other persons who are going to have their own tokens, you know, it’s crazy, there’s a million there’s a million opportunities to grow and just, you know, change the space and, you know, based off all the events that are occurring, there’s really no telling where it’s going to go but I’m excited for the future man. And it’s cool to kind of be in on this this creator this creator token vibe, in its infancy, you know, while still growing and it’s Yeah, I think we’re going to see a lot more people hop on board very, very soon.

Adam Levy: So I love it, man, more power to you. Good shit. Thank you so much for being on. I hope to have you on again soon. Once it’s more developed, you have more people and more and more and more.

JVCKJ:  Kind of implement some of these things for sure.

Adam Levy: Let’s do it. 

JVCKJ:  It’s definitely the longest like, you know, crypto conversation I’ve had and I feel like you know, you brought a lot of great ideas to the table that Jonathan, I hope you’re writing those down.

Adam Levy:  Take it man do your thing. Do your thing.

JVCKJ: I’m always and I hope to be in touch soon, brother.

Adam Levy: You got it, man.

JVCKJ: All right, Adam.

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